Nick De Marco
Well-known
This morning, on the way to the darkroom to make some prints, Ripon and I both had to finish some films - many of you might know I have this Rangefinder Chronicles project and blog whereby I must take and upload a film rangefinder photograph every day for ever.
We stopped by Southwark tube and I set my tripod up with a Hassleblad Xpan on it and started shooting an office block with interesting architecture:
Palestra House, 197 Blackfriars Road.
Within second the security guard came out and said 'You an't take photographs here' I asked him why. He said it was private property. I was standing below the over hang of the building on what looks like the pavement, but it had different colour paving stones. So I picked up my tripod and put it one inch the other side of what was obviously the pavement and continued photographing.
Security guard continued to tell me I was 'not allowed" to phtograph the building. I told him I was in a public place and of course I could photograph it. This exchange carried on for a few minutes and I started to take some photographs with my Leica of the security guard. He said "don't take my photograph" - so I said, 'fine, get out of the way of my lens'. But he wouldn't move and kept telling me that it was not allowed to take photographs of the office.
He picked on the wrong guy. I'm a barrister as well, and I told me that of course I could photograph it, he had no legal entitlement to tell me otherwise and no right to continue to harass me. I suggested if he was so concerned he could as a policeman.
A couple of minutes later a policeman arrived and asked me what I was doing. I told him that although it was no business of his, I was obviously taking photographs of this building and for some strange reason the security guard believed I was not allowed to which was, of course, nonsense. The policeman established I was not on their property and after a brief discussion shrugged and walked off.
the the security man got some more security people down. One said, in a very official voice, that I was 'not allowed' to photograph the building. We had the same conversation, and when I asked on what grounds, I was told, because you are not allowed. Naturally, I told them they were mistaken, and continued to photograph.
The first security guy then called the police again. And a car, with siren blairing (!) soon pulled up. One police officer came up and asked me what I was doing. I asked the officer why she was so interested. She said they had been called to a disturbance and a 999 call had been made. Of course, I stood my ground again, told them it was nonsense and they should think about questioning the security guard for wasting police time.
Another officer suggested to me that the security guard might be worried because of the "terrorist climate" (that old chestnut, wheeled out when all else fails. I said, 'you look like a sensible man, officer, do you really believe a terrorist would come along in broad daylight with a tripod and a film camera and take photos, and when challenged instead of going away would suggest the security consult the police as they were mistaken. He accepted this was ridiculous and, in a nutshell, the police must have told the security guys to stop wasting everybody's time.
I had in fact taken all the photographs I wanted about 10 minutes before, but decided to stay simply to resolve this. A share this rather mundane story because I get increasingly irritated by people asserting that it is unlawful to take photographs. It's an interference in everyone's civil rights, and as a photographer it is tiresome. Of course it helps to know a little about about your rights as a photographer before entering an argument about this, but I strongly advocate every other photographer to stand up for their rights when they can. By doing so, you usually defeat those who think they can stop us photographing. By not doing so they achieve their aim.
Once I develop my film I shall see if I have any nice portraits of the Security Guard to upload on my Rangefinder Chronicles blog
Nick
http://rangefinderchronicles.blogspot.com/
We stopped by Southwark tube and I set my tripod up with a Hassleblad Xpan on it and started shooting an office block with interesting architecture:
Palestra House, 197 Blackfriars Road.
Within second the security guard came out and said 'You an't take photographs here' I asked him why. He said it was private property. I was standing below the over hang of the building on what looks like the pavement, but it had different colour paving stones. So I picked up my tripod and put it one inch the other side of what was obviously the pavement and continued photographing.
Security guard continued to tell me I was 'not allowed" to phtograph the building. I told him I was in a public place and of course I could photograph it. This exchange carried on for a few minutes and I started to take some photographs with my Leica of the security guard. He said "don't take my photograph" - so I said, 'fine, get out of the way of my lens'. But he wouldn't move and kept telling me that it was not allowed to take photographs of the office.
He picked on the wrong guy. I'm a barrister as well, and I told me that of course I could photograph it, he had no legal entitlement to tell me otherwise and no right to continue to harass me. I suggested if he was so concerned he could as a policeman.
A couple of minutes later a policeman arrived and asked me what I was doing. I told him that although it was no business of his, I was obviously taking photographs of this building and for some strange reason the security guard believed I was not allowed to which was, of course, nonsense. The policeman established I was not on their property and after a brief discussion shrugged and walked off.
the the security man got some more security people down. One said, in a very official voice, that I was 'not allowed' to photograph the building. We had the same conversation, and when I asked on what grounds, I was told, because you are not allowed. Naturally, I told them they were mistaken, and continued to photograph.
The first security guy then called the police again. And a car, with siren blairing (!) soon pulled up. One police officer came up and asked me what I was doing. I asked the officer why she was so interested. She said they had been called to a disturbance and a 999 call had been made. Of course, I stood my ground again, told them it was nonsense and they should think about questioning the security guard for wasting police time.
Another officer suggested to me that the security guard might be worried because of the "terrorist climate" (that old chestnut, wheeled out when all else fails. I said, 'you look like a sensible man, officer, do you really believe a terrorist would come along in broad daylight with a tripod and a film camera and take photos, and when challenged instead of going away would suggest the security consult the police as they were mistaken. He accepted this was ridiculous and, in a nutshell, the police must have told the security guys to stop wasting everybody's time.
I had in fact taken all the photographs I wanted about 10 minutes before, but decided to stay simply to resolve this. A share this rather mundane story because I get increasingly irritated by people asserting that it is unlawful to take photographs. It's an interference in everyone's civil rights, and as a photographer it is tiresome. Of course it helps to know a little about about your rights as a photographer before entering an argument about this, but I strongly advocate every other photographer to stand up for their rights when they can. By doing so, you usually defeat those who think they can stop us photographing. By not doing so they achieve their aim.
Once I develop my film I shall see if I have any nice portraits of the Security Guard to upload on my Rangefinder Chronicles blog
Nick
http://rangefinderchronicles.blogspot.com/
FrozenInTime
Well-known
Perhaps the police should have the security guards arrested for disturbing the peace in a public place 
mfogiel
Veteran
Haha... long live the bobbie...
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Although I am well aware of the importance of this event (you were right, correct and the police agreed with you), I feel the response that would annoy the un-aware security officer the most would be: 'That is a hilarious story!'
I really hope that someday soon, some script writer will incorporate these silly 'security' actions in a block buster Hollywood comedy, so that all security guards worldwide will see how foolish they can come across when stating 'You cannot photograph that private property from public ground, just because you cannot'.
I really hope that someday soon, some script writer will incorporate these silly 'security' actions in a block buster Hollywood comedy, so that all security guards worldwide will see how foolish they can come across when stating 'You cannot photograph that private property from public ground, just because you cannot'.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Nick, I am glad you said that no self-respecting terrorist would be photographing a building with a tripod, in broad daylight. I'd challenge the other idiot to go and harass all those who walk by especially speaking on their cellphones, because they also could (and very stealthily) take photographs of such a landmark.
I don't know if I'd have the guts to do what you did... but I'm thinking that the next time it happens, I'll have to follow your example. Otherwise those rent-a-cops will get an exaggerated notion of their power.
Thanks for posting the story!
I don't know if I'd have the guts to do what you did... but I'm thinking that the next time it happens, I'll have to follow your example. Otherwise those rent-a-cops will get an exaggerated notion of their power.
Thanks for posting the story!
axiom
Non-Registered User
I had the same experience.
I walked by the US embassy in Vienna, took a picture of it with my cellphone. A guard of the US embassy equipped with an MP5 machine gun walked out of the booth and ordered me to delete the picture.
I walked by the US embassy in Vienna, took a picture of it with my cellphone. A guard of the US embassy equipped with an MP5 machine gun walked out of the booth and ordered me to delete the picture.
axiom
Non-Registered User
I dared not disobey
Riverman
Well-known
I've had similar grief before in London. Community Support Officers are the worst. Accosted by a trio of them shooting photos beside the Thames, they demanded my personal information - name, address etc. I politely told them to shove it - but made a point of noting down all of their names and badge numbers in my notebook. They disappeared and reappeared a short while later with two real cops in tow. The met cops were not quite as knuckleheaded as the CSOs and satisfied that I was just a photographer, not Osama Bin Laden, eventually left me in peace. Stand your ground.
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Thanks Nick - done us all a good turn.
Riverman - not too sure about the powers of the Community Support Officers. I have a feeling that they have been 'upped' recently but at present can't put my hand to the reference.
jesse
Riverman - not too sure about the powers of the Community Support Officers. I have a feeling that they have been 'upped' recently but at present can't put my hand to the reference.
jesse
sper
Well-known
Although you were right that you were allowed to photograph the building, you were wrong in thinking that it's okay to agravate a guy who was just trying to do his job.
If you wanted to photograph the building, why not just do so with more subtley, or bring it up with managment?
If you wanted to photograph the building, why not just do so with more subtley, or bring it up with managment?
Pablito
coco frío
Glad it worked out but there is no prescribed way to respond in such situations. Sometimes it is best to walk away, it depends on many factors such as how idiotic the security guard is (or policeman) and how important it is to get the photo. Some of these morons will assault you or arrest you just for the sport of it. No substitute for intuition.
This situation is different, yet equally stupid. And very scary:
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2010/12/go.html
This situation is different, yet equally stupid. And very scary:
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2010/12/go.html
Austerby
Well-known
I suspect the security guys were following an internal policy given to them. An office building I was recently working in had a similar policy - there was an official directive that photographs of the building were not permitted and there were internal notices to staff and visitors to publicise this rule. I was aware on one occasion returning from lunch where the security guard was telling some members of the public outside the front entrance that they were not allowed to photograph the building (occupied by a well-known financial institution).
I knew the security guard and at a later moment chatted to him about it - he told me it was the policy they had been told to apply, though he didn't seem to know the reasons why.
As is often the case, the direction behind the action is where our attention should be applied to, rather than the hapless messengers who bring us the bad news.
I knew the security guard and at a later moment chatted to him about it - he told me it was the policy they had been told to apply, though he didn't seem to know the reasons why.
As is often the case, the direction behind the action is where our attention should be applied to, rather than the hapless messengers who bring us the bad news.
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rolleistef
Well-known
of course this situation is ridiculous. But as for ambassies, it's something different : you'r enot just taking photos of a building, but also of a foreign country.
Here's my photo of Britain taken in the vicinity of Unter den Linden in Berlin :
Perhaps it's best remembering the position of many security people. It's not a job you actually chose because you like it. They often have very little education (and sometimes no document at all), and by not obeying a rule they were given (do not let anyone take photographs of this building for instance), it's more their family's bread and butter than their personal pride that is at stake for them.
Of course that system is awful, but I guess it's alienating for us as well as for them....
Here's my photo of Britain taken in the vicinity of Unter den Linden in Berlin :
Perhaps it's best remembering the position of many security people. It's not a job you actually chose because you like it. They often have very little education (and sometimes no document at all), and by not obeying a rule they were given (do not let anyone take photographs of this building for instance), it's more their family's bread and butter than their personal pride that is at stake for them.
Of course that system is awful, but I guess it's alienating for us as well as for them....
rolleistef
Well-known
austerby, we apparently wrote with the same inspiration at the same time,different words and a common thought!
Nick De Marco
Well-known
I couldn't disagree more sib. And I speak as someone who worked 5 years, whilst studying as a nightclub doorman. It was not me aggravating him. I was happily taking photos. And I appreciate he was no doubt given stupid orders, which I took up with him and suggested he tell his manager that the manager needs some training. But the idea that every time I want to photograph a building, or whatever, I must first take it up with the manager, or get official permission, is bonkers, and the end to spontaniety.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Nick...thanks for posting your encounter...more of us need to stand our ground...
The last time I was asked not to photograph a building I was on Private Property (local outdoor mall) I informed the security guard that he could not stop me from photographing and that there were no posted signs stating that...He replied that it was Mall Policy...I asked to see their policy, in writing, they said it was confidential and would not show me...
They called the local police, at my request, and even the police stated they could not stop me from photographing...BUT here's what they can do, AND IT'S THE ONLY THING THEY CAN DO... Get me for Trespassing on Private Property...
Later, I visited our local newspaper and told them what happened...the editor said that even they had to ask for permission to photograph at the mall since it is PP...
Remember the old bumper sticker "Question Authority" ???
I used to hate that statement now I embrace it...I'm no radical, just standing for what is right, just and logical...
The last time I was asked not to photograph a building I was on Private Property (local outdoor mall) I informed the security guard that he could not stop me from photographing and that there were no posted signs stating that...He replied that it was Mall Policy...I asked to see their policy, in writing, they said it was confidential and would not show me...
They called the local police, at my request, and even the police stated they could not stop me from photographing...BUT here's what they can do, AND IT'S THE ONLY THING THEY CAN DO... Get me for Trespassing on Private Property...
Later, I visited our local newspaper and told them what happened...the editor said that even they had to ask for permission to photograph at the mall since it is PP...
Remember the old bumper sticker "Question Authority" ???
I used to hate that statement now I embrace it...I'm no radical, just standing for what is right, just and logical...
greyelm
Malcolm
I wonder if the US Embassy Guard in Vienna knows about the photo on their own site?
http://austria.usembassy.gov/about-us.html
http://austria.usembassy.gov/about-us.html
photo4ls
Well-known
Good for you Nick, I applaud your effort.
Nelson
Nelson
anthony_semone
Established
It's Bush's fault
tony
tony
oftheherd
Veteran
As Pablito said, each encounter must be taken on its own merits. However, I agree that in general, you would not want to be subtle to the point of looking surreptitious. Nor should you have to ask the manager each time. If you have time, it might get you permission to take photos more than once, or it might get the management to set up a special lookout for you and then tell the police, "he did that after I specifically told him he didn't have permission."
Anyway, good for you Nick. It seems you stood up for your rights without being confrontational. Way to go.