Spyro
Well-known
I admire your patience, but in my opinion you're banging your head against a brick wall. Educating security guards one at the time? We are severely outnumbered man, how many times can you do it before your nerves are shot?
I apologise for my laziness but when faced with ignorance I take the easy way out: take off and come back when the idiot is replaced by someone who actually understands his duties, or a slack idiot. Both will do in that case.
I apologise for my laziness but when faced with ignorance I take the easy way out: take off and come back when the idiot is replaced by someone who actually understands his duties, or a slack idiot. Both will do in that case.
Jack Conrad
Well-known
Great job, Nick. I'm proud of you, you're a brave man...
It seems to me that those security guards began harassing you (attempting to prevent you from peacefully and legally going about your business, which I "think"
in most jurisdictions harassment is considered a crime) the second you removed yourself from said private property. It seems to me you could have pressed a harassment charge against the guards when the police arrived.
I'm not saying that pressing charges would have been prudent at all, but it would send a message to "management" if their employees get taken to jail for following criminal "management" policies.
It'd be interesting to see what the police might do under those same circumstances if you had pressed and filed charges.
It seems to me that those security guards began harassing you (attempting to prevent you from peacefully and legally going about your business, which I "think"
in most jurisdictions harassment is considered a crime) the second you removed yourself from said private property. It seems to me you could have pressed a harassment charge against the guards when the police arrived. I'm not saying that pressing charges would have been prudent at all, but it would send a message to "management" if their employees get taken to jail for following criminal "management" policies.
It'd be interesting to see what the police might do under those same circumstances if you had pressed and filed charges.
oftheherd
Veteran
...
I'm not saying that pressing charges would have been prudent at all, but it would send a message to "management" if their employees get taken to jail for following criminal "management" policies.
It'd be interesting to see what the police might do under those same circumstances if you had pressed and filed charges.
I understand your angst. Still that's easy for any of us to say except that we weren't there, and didn't have to consider taking time out for court as opposed to just taking our photos and leaving.
Luckily Nick rose above all that.
retro
Well-known
Thank you, Nick, for defending our rights and I hope you won't listen to the jerks who say you're wasting your time, etc.
The ones who try to take away our rights are the ones who are outnumbered and the defeatest bozos are simply being part of the problem rather then part of the solution.
The ones who try to take away our rights are the ones who are outnumbered and the defeatest bozos are simply being part of the problem rather then part of the solution.
One time I got an apology and a $25 gift certificate from a shopping mall after I complained that I was told I could not use my camera. They had no such policy, and the employee was in error. I bought film with the certificate.
Spyro
Well-known
Thank you, Nick, for defending our rights and I hope you won't listen to the jerks who say you're wasting your time, etc.
The ones who try to take away our rights are the ones who are outnumbered and the defeatest bozos are simply being part of the problem rather then part of the solution.
Do not despair, there is help
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
Actually, this evening I met with two railfans I know who were arrested for "photography" on the New York Subway system when they were taking pictures of a vintage subway consist being run around the city for a museum group trip.
They showed up in court and the judge threw the charges out. The funny thing is they both have valid press Ids, as one works for a newspaper and the other is a magazine editor.
Their employers and the ACLU are suing the city for damages. They don't care about actually getting any money, they are just working on future articles and trying to set some precedents.
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retro
Well-known
Spyro
Well-known
And, here is a place you can share your ideas about it.
haha awesome, I'm arguing on the internet with a 12 year old
Rejuvenating, but enough for one day.
cya
FrankS
Registered User
Ha ha, fun jabs there guys. Let's keep it in good spirit.
retro
Well-known
haha awesome, I'm arguing on the internet with a 12 year old
Rejuvenating, but enough for one day.
cya
You must mean my grandson. I doubt he'd consider this much of
an argument. But, as you say, you need your rest so I won't
wake him.
FrankS
Registered User
To get this back on track, I agree with post #34.
This is over-dramatic, but I'm reminded of the saying: All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
This is over-dramatic, but I'm reminded of the saying: All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
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scottgee1
RF renegade
Argument/contradiction?
Argument/contradiction?
Did any of the security guards look like John Cleese?
Argument/contradiction?
Did any of the security guards look like John Cleese?
retro
Well-known
will-i_am
Well-known
hey well done i'm so sick people telling me i cant photograph stuff, so irritating.
i dont know why people are bringing issues of class and minimum wage into this conversation it has nothing to do with those issues its about people in perceived positions of authority trying to enforce non existent rules, once your off the private property they have no reason to harass you and they should know that. once again well done.
i dont know why people are bringing issues of class and minimum wage into this conversation it has nothing to do with those issues its about people in perceived positions of authority trying to enforce non existent rules, once your off the private property they have no reason to harass you and they should know that. once again well done.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
I think Nick was totally right and justified in sticking up for his rights as a photographer. And you've got to respect the way he did so in a calm and reasonable manner. The way he conducted himself in this instance can only help us all, as photographers and good citizens in general.
Now, as far as security being called stupid, that's completely uncalled for.
I have personally trained security personnel in the past and many are intelligent and conduct themselves in a professional manner. I know one who went on to serve in the Special Forces and returned from overseas after being wounded.
It's a tough job and believe me, for the most part, security personnel are more than willing to get all the training they can to better themselves.
The fact is that many employers don't offer more/better training for their security personnel.
I think everyone should be treated with respect.
And over the years I have had more than my share of run-ins while taking pictures.
Staying calm and knowing where you stand is always a good idea.
Now, as far as security being called stupid, that's completely uncalled for.
I have personally trained security personnel in the past and many are intelligent and conduct themselves in a professional manner. I know one who went on to serve in the Special Forces and returned from overseas after being wounded.
It's a tough job and believe me, for the most part, security personnel are more than willing to get all the training they can to better themselves.
The fact is that many employers don't offer more/better training for their security personnel.
I think everyone should be treated with respect.
And over the years I have had more than my share of run-ins while taking pictures.
Staying calm and knowing where you stand is always a good idea.
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35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
good job Nick.
dbarnes
Well-known
I'm not a lawyer, but I've noticed that this discussion has had posts from folks in at least six different countries and from I'm-not-sure-how-many cities. Laws and ordinances and constitutional protections, if any (I think our UK friends are out of luck on that score), are going to vary. My two cents: Do your own research or check with someone locally authoritative before you draw conclusions about what is allowed where.
healyzh
Well-known
Actually a shopping mall is one place where they are justified in telling you that you can't take photo's, though most don't care. A shopping mall is private property. In such cases, agree to stop, just don't give them your camera or film, or agree to delete any digital photo's, at least in the US all they can do is ask you to stop. If you don't stop after they ask you to, they can ask you to leave. I've even taken photo's of my kids getting their photo's taken with Santa at the Mall. I had the better DSLR & lens, and got the better result (thankfully we got the "professional" shot for free). I've also been known to take photo's of my family at the mall with 35mm film camera's.
A year or so ago the local 3D Photography club actually went to one of the big local malls to take photo's. With 3D camera's they'd have really stood out! I'm not sure if they sought permission or not.