healyzh
Well-known
Excellent point! Also when visiting countries other than your own, be sure you know the rules. In the late 80's and early 90's I was often in countries where what you could photograph was severely restricted, and sometimes even having a camera on you was a bad idea.
robklurfield
eclipse
I wonder if Nick had been using a cell phone camera, one those cheap and small hand-held Flip video cams or a digital P&S if anyone would have bothered him? Glad you, Nick that you stuck up for your (and all of our) rights. If building owners want to make their buildings immune from photography from across the street on public ground, perhaps they should hire Christo to cover them in drapes.
In a sad sort of way, the terrorists of the world have won a round in the battle against the rest of us. They've turned so many people, especially in positions of authority, to paranoia that they have radically altered the way Western democracies treat freedom. T'is a terrible pity. Glad each time I hear of an RFF member asserting rights in the face of this.
The most terrible thing about this is that photographs have at least as much if not more potential to do good by shedding light on the world than they do to assist evil. (Honestly, a terrorist taking the time to set up an Xpan on a tripod in plain sight? Just a silly notion.)
In a sad sort of way, the terrorists of the world have won a round in the battle against the rest of us. They've turned so many people, especially in positions of authority, to paranoia that they have radically altered the way Western democracies treat freedom. T'is a terrible pity. Glad each time I hear of an RFF member asserting rights in the face of this.
The most terrible thing about this is that photographs have at least as much if not more potential to do good by shedding light on the world than they do to assist evil. (Honestly, a terrorist taking the time to set up an Xpan on a tripod in plain sight? Just a silly notion.)
David Murphy
Veteran
I saw Cameron (UK Prime Minister) with Prime Minister's Questions (past Wednesday) on CSPAN say something about how he wanted a UK Bill of Rights. Sounds like the UK might need this. (For UK friends CSPAN is a pubic service cable TV station in the USA).
I wish we had something like "Prime Minister's Questions" here - it's a fantastically entertaining and informative event. It seems a good way too to bring grievances from the "little people" (beyond the usual spats between political parties) directly to the attention of higher authorities. Here we have staged media events for our presidents, like "town halls" or Washington press conferences with carefully culled invitees.
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JHP
Well-known
Spyro
Well-known
Actually a shopping mall is not exactly the same as any "private property" that an owner can set whatever rules he wants, same as he would with his house. Think about it, in his house an owner can allow smoking, allow nudity, deny access to anyone he doesnt like his face. But can he set the same rules in his privately owned shopping mall? Nope, he'd be sued to hell and back. A shopping centre is a quasi public place because it admits the public, and therefore it must adhere with certain rules of the state re places that the public goes to. Whether these rules include photography or not I assume it is a matter of local legislation, as dbarnes wisely mentioned.
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David Murphy
Veteran
In the US the matter of whether large shopping venues are public or private places is apparently one in legal dispute right now, or at least periodically so. If a shopping venue becomes a dominant gathering place for a community the argument (as I've heard it) is that this is no different than the old town square and constitutional rights apply.
bo_lorentzen
Established
Nick,
Good for you, sticking to it.
Agree with the posters saying its useless to educate morons, however, if you let morons be right when they are wrong, they will next start thinking about other rules they need to enforce, maybe confiscating my film. unfortunately it is necessary to stand ones ground sometimes.
Bo
www.bophoto.typepad.com
Good for you, sticking to it.
Agree with the posters saying its useless to educate morons, however, if you let morons be right when they are wrong, they will next start thinking about other rules they need to enforce, maybe confiscating my film. unfortunately it is necessary to stand ones ground sometimes.
Bo
www.bophoto.typepad.com
FrozenInTime
Well-known
The whole security thing is a bit mute - when it takes 30 seconds to find where all the security cameras are using Google street view.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=russian+embassy&hl=en&cd=1&ei=aZT8TKqxEqOqoASP3ei-DQ&sll=19.42705,-99.127571&sspn=0.516096,0.702438&ie=UTF8&view=map&cid=205460073275813230&ved=0CBQQpQY&hq=russian+embassy&hnear=&ll=19.409095,-99.183798&spn=0.007812,0.015063&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=19.410209,-99.182845&panoid=Ve54FqYXvkEU3RrXRMayFw&cbp=12,168.15,,0,-5.38
FrozenInTime
Well-known
thegman
Veteran
I agree entirely with Nick, by the sounds of it, Nick was polite but firm. It's not the security guard's fault, they're just doing as they are told. I think it's really the government's fault (this one, and the previous one) for not making the law clear on this matter at all. Sounds like the police handled it well though.
efix
RF user by conviction
What a classic story! I'm just a hobby photographer and don't regularly take pictures of buildings or people, but in fact one time I tried to shoot a scene of a run-down garage when suddenly the proprietor and his henchmen came out and told me not to take pictures. Funny thing is, I hadn't even taken a single shot, as I had already noticed their presence in the yard before I could lift my camera to my eyes. Started a similar discussion, which ended up with them threatening my life. In this case, they might have had a point actually, as I'm sure their proceedings in that garage were far from legal ...
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dovevadar
DoveVadar
Way to go Nick. Security has to be taught. There was an incident in Singapore where a policeman hand-cuffed a reporter who was shooting the mini flood, and the flood is not the China kind of major flood. Its just a overdose of rain in the middle of Orchard road that floods into the shopping mall. His reason? "for the reporter's safety". Bullocks. I will sue his pants off if he ever do that to me. That is Singapore press for you.
They can ask me to stop if the actual policy is to not allow photography in the mall. That was not the mall's policy. The Mall was decorated for Christmas, and lots of people use cameras to take pictures of the decorations.
igi
Well-known
oooh... terrorists use a Leica
or in a much specific sentence...
oooh... cash strapped organizations that better spend on bombs and guns use a $xxxx.xx camera.
or in a much specific sentence...
oooh... cash strapped organizations that better spend on bombs and guns use a $xxxx.xx camera.
sniki
Well-known
Ade-oh
Well-known
There seems to be an odd misperception that the UK doesn't have a constitution guaranteeing individual rights. Just to clear this up, the UK does have a constitution and it does guarantee most of the same right that US citizens enjoy, but it isn't embodied in a single document and it can be modified by parliament. When discussing a 'UK Bill of Rights' recently, David Cameron was actually contrasting this with our most recent legislation on the subject, the Human Rights Act of 2000 (I think it was), which simply put the European Convention on Human Rights into UK statute law and which has arguably restricted the ability of the UK parliament to make law.
All good Americans should remember that one of the reasons for the American revolution was that the British government didn't allow the protections of the 1689 Bill of Rights to be extended to the colonies!
Mcary
Well-known
What you should have done is asked to speak to the commander of the guard and then in polite but firm tone request that he show you some sign or official documentation stating that taking photographs of the embassy wasn't allowed.
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user237428934
User deletion pending
Was it an american citizen who works in the embassy? That embarasses me the most when people think they could enforce their laws in other countries.
btgc
Veteran
Empires are basing on fear. Don't expect human logic there.
axiom
Non-Registered User
Sanity prevented me from demanding an official documentation from an MP5.
Plus, I had some business around that area (just cross the street at Schrodinger institute) for 2 weeks. I didn't want the situation to become that I'd have had to sneak in the institute for every day.