Zeiss Ikon 332/16 film counter repair?

[eli griggs]

I've just brought home a near perfect Super Ikonta that frankly, looks like it left the factory last year and had some light use.

The shutter seems right on and it looks like the gentleman that sold it to me had stored it properly these last 20 years, with the shutter released and set to 1 second. The lens has a Compur Rapid shutter and the bellows is perfect and supple and there seems to be no paint missing except a bit on the back hinge. The lens looks to be uncoated, no haze or oil on the iris blades. It locks open like the Rock of Gibraltar but without all the tourists.

Other than a touch of fungus on the inside of the front viewfinder glass and a 2-3mm partial tear on a corner the front cover which should glue down nicely, the only thing wrong seems to be that the film counter seems to be stuck at '9'. It won't turn when pressed and I don't want to force it without good cause.

Are these easy repairs or am I simply not operating the camera correctly? I have $30 in it already and don't want to bust my budget on a wasted cause, I've already got a working Iskra😉

Eli
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3633/3667231894_8007423601.jpg?v=0

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54724843@N00/3666425781/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54724843@N00/3666425811/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54724843@N00/3667232088/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3323/3668171588_7c0ff56792.jpg?v=0

 

[chippy]

Eli,
looks like a very nice Super Ikonta B, or 532/16 , not 332/16. great cameras, built like the proverbial brick ..hmm ..dunny looks better in print

try cocking the shutter and winding on one frame at a time, it (counter mech)wont release (become free) until it reaches the end of the frame cycle.

i've uploaded the instructions in pdf below


[edit] not sure how or if pdf's can be uploaded? it didnt appear to work

 

[eli griggs]

Thanks for the tip, I'll correct the header to read, 532/16, if it lets me. I'll send you my email address by pm so you can send the pdf directly to me if it's not a bother.

I like the feel of the camera in hand, the weight is good and it feel quite well put together. I'm really please to have found one with this shutter and uncoated lens, thought I wasn't really looking for one in particular, just keeping my eyes open to what might come my way.

I can't wait to run some Plus-X through it and see if I can get a little 'Glow!' in some silver prints. I think I have a 37mm push-on series filter adapter and possibly a lens shade as well, but I wonder if a 36.5 mm push-on filter will work as well?

Eli

 

[ZeissFan]

No, you can only use A37 push-on filters.

Without actually seeing the camera in person, I would guess that the film advance needs to be serviced. Nearly all cameras from that era will need to be serviced.

 

[chippy]

I cant say whether the 36.5 would work or not, i havnt tried as i have the correct ones to use, they may work by slightly bending out the taps on the filter but it would be a shame to scratch a camera in such nice condition

here a pic of mine with zeiss 37mm filters and shade, the front can be closed with filter still in place, which is handy, quite a few folders have a problem leaving filters on

 

[eli griggs]

Andrew, thanks for the pdf, it came through just fine.

The manual told me how to fix the problem with the film counter, it works just fine now but it seems that the issue underlying everything is that the shutter release is stiff and will not trigger the shutter.

I think ZeissFan is right in that it needs a CLA, however I'm wondering if some naptha down the release shaft will help any? The shutter release button is stiff and won't trip the shutter. This is not helped by the small silver arm under the lens, which the release mechanism engages to trip the shutter; it must need a new spring or lube work because it lies in the path of the pusher arm, not above it.

The self-timer is stiff running but it sets correctly and as I said earlier, the shutter speeds, 1/400-1s seem good, though I can't set it to 'B' and release it.

What does a CLA run for these cameras and whom do the folks here recommend?

Are any of these repairs simple enough to tackle on my own with on-line instructions?

Eli

 

[eli griggs]

Well, other than 'B', it seems I've got it running well, IF I place a small spacer behind the pusher piece which trips the silver shutter release on the lens. The shutter button works well enough now and the spacer can be a little piece of watercolour paper (read thick) and a smidgen of double stick tape to keep it in place. This should allow me to shoot a roll this week and see what's what. The paint on this really does look new, shiny and clean, so I don't think the tape will harm the finish at all when I go to remove it.

Unless someone can give me a good reason not to, I will go ahead and run a drop of Naptha down the shutter button shaft to clean/smooth that out.

At this early hour, it seems all I needed was to run these moving parts through their paces a couple of dozen times to get them freed up enough to run properly.

I found that I can remove the front glass with a wood push tool, like an ice cream stick, to clean the inside surface. There are also good instructions on removing the top to clean the other glass surfaces, but I don't think I'll do that till latter on; I can work with it as is.

I want to ask, does anyone here use paste shoe polish to keep the leather of their folders and cases protected? I saw where this is recommended on one site and it seems to be a good idea when I think about it.

I'm also curious about when this was made; the lens number is 21663xx

I'll still want a CLA, sooner than latter but I'll happily work with it as is for the meantime.

Now if I can only find a good case for the little monster!

Eli

 

[chippy]

you got it going ...the ol girls dont give up easy eh, well done 🙂

glad you got the pdf, it always makes more sense when you have the instructions.

i would of thought the leather on yours looks in very good condition, so i would resist (very much) the temptation to use shoe polish (if its not broke!), it tends to change the colour somewhat..there are other leather care products that might be worthwhile for protection and not change the look..depends where you live to whats available..fallisphoto has a memory like a steel trap for the good product brands for leather treatment

yours looks to be about a mid-late 1937 camera (by serial number), mine is late 38 to early 39 (same camera though and ya never know, might of had the same hands assembling them 😀 huge factory though!) this model was built from 1937 to about 56, the pre-war and early post war have the same configuration of lens shutter as yours, as time went on they had coated lens s/compur shutters and then flash sync, the later ones are more collectable or fetch higher prices but the early non coated model is the same camera (the shutter makes little difference; the s/compur struggles to achieve much faster speed than the c/rapid anyway). whilst i like all folders and have some favourites from post war, i have a particular soft spot for the pre-war folders because that was their golden age, with new developments every year. post war it was simply about using the same cameras with little significant further development arising (an occasional one, but ya know what i mean), new developments, once recovery from the war was done was mostly going toward TLR, 35mm etc

personally i wouldn't put napthia down the shutter button, i would disassemble the whole thing and do it properly, if you cant resist, do so very sparingly over a long period (the good advice is to not do it-it will not solve it properly (or at all) and just move grime around, not sure i would want the risk of getting any on the bellows either)

if it was fungus on the viewfinder, then ponds face cream is said to be a cure, i've tried it to test, it seems to work so far, so is placing in the sun to kill it off

keep your eyes open on the auction site for a case, i got a nice one ages ago for little money...one good thing with this model is it has neck strap clips. so it can at least be carried without the case if you choose...case is very nice and preferred though

 

[eli griggs]

Thanks for the dates Andrew, that's good news to me as I wanted an early camera. Some of the stuff I've seen suggest the more complicated shutters that came latter on might be a bit more complicated with little improve.

As to the viewfinder glass, I'll see if any of the ladies I know use that face cream and give it a try.

About the leather, I was thinking more about a protective treatment of an already great condition leather rather than restoration of appearance. Other than some "Renaissance Wax", which I don't want to buy just for this application, old fashioned carnauba boot paste seems safest.

I am looking here and at the Yahoo camera repair forum for links to 'how to' pages with info on cleaning the shutter and shutter release and though it seemed some of the iris closings was a bit slow this morning, working the shutter and winder seems to have helped. Even the out of place silver shutter release arm is moving into the proper position as I put the settings through their paces.

At the moment I think I'll be able to go ahead and shoot some film before opening anything up.

Let me ask, is 'white gas' an acceptable alternative to napthia? I've seen it mentioned several time while looking at repair instructions of the last few years.

Eli

 

[ZeissFan]

For the leather, the treatment is simple.

Clean with saddle soap and a toothbrush. Wipe clean with paper towels.

Then apply shoe polish and buff with a shoe brush. It might feel a bit tacky at first, but that will disappear within a few hours or a day at the most.

Remember: It's leather. Treat it with leather products.

I do this with all cameras that have a leather covering. Here's one of them -- a Zeiss Ikon Super Nettel. Take a look at the photos at the bottom: "Before" and "after."

 

[eli griggs]

ZeissFan, thanks for sharing your leather treatment SOP and the link as well. I like how those 'bumps' disappeared when treated.

Andrew, what I call white gas is indeed camp stove fuel, though I didn't think it was the same as the lighter fluid used in Zippos.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Andrew, what I call white gas is indeed camp stove fuel, though I didn't think it was the same as the lighter fluid used in Zippos.

Naptha is the chemical name for a petroleum distillate. Naptha's commercial uses are white gas (Coleman stove and lantern fuel), lighter fluid (Zippo and Ronsonol), charcoal lighter fluid (Gulf Light and Kingsford), and it is also sold generically in hardware stores as an industrial solvent. The Coleman white gas, lighter fluids and generic solvent incarnations are clean enough to use for cleaning cameras. The charcoal lighter fluid, I suspect, isn't. The Gasoline you use in cars is more highly refined and would ordinarily evaporate cleaner, but they put contaminating additives in it that make it worthless for cleaning cameras or pretty much anything else.

An addendum to Zeissfan's post: It's leather and ordinary leather products are good for it, IF the leather is in good shape. They are good for maintaining leather. There are other products, only available through special order (like cellugel, for example), that you'd want to use for treating leather that is in less than ideal shape. A dab of shoe polish isn't going to do much for a snagged up, brittle, broken down piece of leather. That requires special treatment. Also, what many people assume is leather is actually a molded cellulose, formed over a fabric base. Leather products don't work on this stuff as well as silicone-based vinyl protectants do. A product called Nu-Vinyl is one of my favorites, although this is getting hard to find. One thing I found out lately though is that you don't clean a silicone bellows patch with it (because it will dissolve the silicone patch).

 

[eli griggs]

Thanks for clearing up the Naptha/white gas thing for me. Ironically, I had a couple of gallons of Coleman fuel in the shed when I went looking for lighter fluid a couple of years back, here in N.C. I really had a tough time finding it at the first several stores I figured to carry it but they now longer do. Time and new sensibilities sure has changed tobacco country.

Now, just to be sure, is the covering on the 532/16 is leather or no?

 

[FallisPhoto]

Thanks for clearing up the Naptha/white gas thing for me. Ironically, I had a couple of gallons of Coleman fuel in the shed when I went looking for lighter fluid a couple of years back, here in N.C. I really had a tough time finding it at the first several stores I figured to carry it but they now longer do. Time and new sensibilities sure has changed tobacco country.

Now, just to be sure, is the covering on the 532/16 is leather or no?

Unless someone has removed them and painted over the brass rivets, any older Zeiss folding camera with a real leather covering will always have Zeiss bumps. Leather is porous and lets moisture and oxygen through to corrode the brass rivets they used. Verdigris builds up and forms the bumps. This often happens with leatherette too, but not always. Yours doesn't appear to have bumps, so I'd have to say it's leatherette. To be sure, I'd have to see a closeup photo of the covering though, front and back.

 

[eli griggs]

Fallsphoto, I've added a couple of close-ups at http://www.flickr.com/photos/54724843@N00/sets/72157620658257790/

I don't have a digital camera but for the one on my imac so please excuse the quality.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Fallsphoto, I've added a couple of close-ups at http://www.flickr.com/photos/54724843@N00/sets/72157620658257790/

I don't have a digital camera but for the one on my imac so please excuse the quality.

The "grain" in early leatherettes was not really that random, while the grain in real leather is. Yours, believe it or not, looks very random, so it is probably real leather.

Chippy has a point too. All the cameras I see need work.