Watch Repair

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris -- I would think any decent jeweler would be able to buff out those scratches, or at least make them almost unnoticeable. I have a Hamilton field watch I got new in the mid-70s (L.L. Bean model) with some deep scratches -- a local jeweler fixed it up in maybe 10 minutes' time. For free.

That probably has an acrylic crystal. Those are easy to remove scratches from; I've done it myself on other watches. Unfortunately, the crystal in my Seiko is something Seiko calls "Hardlex." It is a hardened glass that has the disadvantage of still being scratchable (unlike Sapphire) but too hard to buff out any scratches it gets (unlike acrylic). Replacement is pretty much the only option. Anything able to grind those scratches off would tear up the watch bezel; and if we have to take the crystal out, might as well install a new one.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

You're smart to leave the beat adjustment for later.

I don't "beat" myself up over beat error. As long as a stopped, run down watch starts after a few turns into winding I'm happy. Also, I tend to go by visuals more than numbers. If when the watch is run down and stopped the pallet fork is lined up more or less on the center line then I call it bueno. I also look for the escape wheel tooth that's engaging either of the pallet stones to rest on the impulse surface of the stone. That way self starting is almost guaranteed. If you've got the pallet fork lined up on center but the escape teeth aren't lining up with the pallet stones like they should then you have other problems.

Everything looks good visually. It probably would have passed as good in the days when it was made before the use of electronic timegraphers that make it possible for us to be a lot more exacting and nitpicky.

 

[GMOG]

Everything looks good visually. It probably would have passed as good in the days when it was made before the use of electronic timegraphers that make it possible for us to be a lot more exacting and nitpicky.

It gets interesting when you set a movement's beat by the numbers and then find the pallet fork well off the center line at rest. What passes as "good" is a watch that runs reliably. Reliability doesn't necessarily include "perfect" beat error by the numbers, but I understand the fun that can be had experimenting and learning in your own way, so have at it. You might practice beat adjustments on that Swiss pocket watch you got.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

It gets interesting when you set a movement's beat by the numbers and then find the pallet fork well off the center line at rest. What passes as "good" is a watch that runs reliably. Reliability doesn't necessarily include "perfect" beat error by the numbers, but I understand the fun that can be had experimenting and learning in your own way, so have at it. You might practice beat adjustments on that Swiss pocket watch you got.

That would be frustrating to try to figure out..the fork not centered when the timegrapher says its in beat!

The swiss pocket watch is the Elgin, and it'll actually be easy to get in beat; it has a modern regulator with the hairspring stud on a moveable arm 😀 That one and the small Waltham both have modern-style movements, so those are the two pocket watches I am going to restore first.


The Elgin watch's movement. It is an ETA 6431-6445 movement; the ETA logo and model number is under the balance wheel. Should be easy to work on.

The two other watches are MUCH older. One was made in 1909, the other in 1869. Yes, 1869! 156 years old! Those two have similar looking movements, and they're strange. The entire movement is encased in metal, except the balance wheel, which sits on top of the case containing the rest of the movement.



This is the 1909 Waltham. I haven't photographed the 1869 watch yet; but it looks similar. I'm not messing with these ancient ones till I do some more research on them; I don't want to risk messing something up.

 

[GMOG]

The swiss pocket watch is the Elgin, and it'll actually be easy to get in beat; it has a modern regulator with the hairspring stud on a moveable arm 😀

Well then! You could still practice moving the collet if it is the standard "C" shape. But you have other watches that can provide the opportunity for learning just as well.

The old 18S watches are some of my favorites to work on. Simple! Reliable, but often well worn, damaged.

 

[wlewisiii]

My 1903 Elgin might be a good one to practice on < whistles innocently >

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Well then! You could still practice moving the collet if it is the standard "C" shape. But you have other watches that can provide the opportunity for learning just as well.

The old 18S watches are some of my favorites to work on. Simple! Reliable, but often well worn, damaged.

So ones like the Waltham I posted the pic of with the gold-tone movement are simple to work on? That's great! That one actually works; it runs when I wind it, but it runs slow. I'm guessing it just needs cleaned. The other really old one, which I still need to photograph, requires a key to wind and set it, and the guy who gave it to me didn't include a key. Fortunately, replacement keys seem to be available cheaply online. I need to measure it and see what size key it takes so I can get one. It would be cool if I can get both of those really old ones running. One is 116 year old and the other is 156 years old!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

My 1903 Elgin might be a good one to practice on < whistles innocently >

I'd be afraid of messing up something on it. If I screw up a watch I own, I'll be sad; but if I mess up someone else's, I'm screwed because I can't afford to replace it.

 

[wlewisiii]

Oh, don't worry, wasn't meant to be too serious at this point in your adventure 🙂 Keep having fun, that's the important thing.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Oh, don't worry, wasn't meant to be too serious at this point in your adventure 🙂 Keep having fun, that's the important thing.

I'm guessing from the age of your watch that it has a movement similar to the other two early watches I have, like this one:



GMOG is saying that they're simple to work on; once I get to mine and see, I might be willing to work on yours. I want to do mine first for the experience.

 

[wlewisiii]

I'm guessing from the age of your watch that it has a movement similar to the other two early watches I have, like this one:

View attachment 4864840

GMOG is saying that they're simple to work on; once I get to mine and see, I might be willing to work on yours. I want to do mine first for the experience.

It's the one in post #34 🙂

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

It's the one in post #34 🙂

Ok, yeah that is one of the older style movements. It looks a lot like the one in my photo, just a different color. Similar design architecture, though.

 

[GMOG]

So ones like the Waltham I posted the pic of with the gold-tone movement are simple to work on? That's great! That one actually works; it runs when I wind it, but it runs slow. I'm guessing it just needs cleaned. The other really old one, which I still need to photograph, requires a key to wind and set it, and the guy who gave it to me didn't include a key. Fortunately, replacement keys seem to be available cheaply online. I need to measure it and see what size key it takes so I can get one. It would be cool if I can get both of those really old ones running. One is 116 year old and the other is 156 years old!

Yes, the 18S watches are simpler and larger, with fewer parts, which makes them good candidates for learning. One challenge with them is not having the same kind of access to the escapement that you do with later designs, but this is a small thing. And like I said before, mechanical wear and other issues caused by previous watchbreakers are the main challenges with watches that have been around for a long time.

Keys are sized using an ancient system that doesn't translate easily to dimensions (although there may be a conversion chart out there somewhere). You may need to buy a set to find the right one.

I'll be at the bench today. I've got something to show about working on 18S watches that I will try to photograph and share later.

 

[KoNickon]

That probably has an acrylic crystal. Those are easy to remove scratches from; I've done it myself on other watches. Unfortunately, the crystal in my Seiko is something Seiko calls "Hardlex." It is a hardened glass that has the disadvantage of still being scratchable (unlike Sapphire) but too hard to buff out any scratches it gets (unlike acrylic). Replacement is pretty much the only option. Anything able to grind those scratches off would tear up the watch bezel; and if we have to take the crystal out, might as well install a new one.

You're correct; mine has an acrylic crystal. I wasn't sure whether nonetheless buffing could work on glass. (So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

 

[KoNickon]

You're correct; mine has an acrylic crystal. I wasn't sure whether nonetheless buffing could work on glass. (So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

I love this thread, by the way.

 

[GMOG]

So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

Easier and less expensive to manufacture. But yeah, if there's a better option then why don't manufacturers use it? The answer has to do with what it costs the maker and how that impacts retail pricing.

 

[p.giannakis]

You're correct; mine has an acrylic crystal. I wasn't sure whether nonetheless buffing could work on glass. (So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

Polywatch helps if the scratches are not deep in the acrylic. Just make sure it is not some very old acrylic from the 30s/40s as these are cellulose based and will melt. I know. I've done it 🙄

With glass you need diamond paste and you can't guarantee that it won't be visible. Better replace the glass.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

You're correct; mine has an acrylic crystal. I wasn't sure whether nonetheless buffing could work on glass. (So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

For the user, hardened glass sucks; for the manufacturer it cheaper than Sapphire 😛

 

[Muggins]

You're correct; mine has an acrylic crystal. I wasn't sure whether nonetheless buffing could work on glass. (So if hardened glass can still scratch, what's the use of it then? 🙂

 

[Muggins]

Chris, you reminded me of my watch. Originally my great grandfather's, as far as I know it went unworn between his death on 1916 and my sister's wedding in 2002. I decided to wear it as a family piece, and kept taking it out and opening it through the evening. Suddenly I realised it was running, for the first time in 86 years!

I'm a scientist, I know most things have logical explanations, and I know what the one for this is, but it still felt pretty damn special seeing the second hand moving and hearing it tick!

It has been professionally serviced since and, as a pocket watch, it comes out when I need to scrub up and put a suit on.

Mine is a 1911 Waltham Traveller, in an English case. I think I'd love it c even it wasn't a family piece as its so tactile!