mto'brien
Well-known
yes, sorry. sometimes i slip into texting...
there is no distributor named IDK, AFAIK!
richardhkirkando
Well-known
I think they just had a ton of them in stock. If you browse their "overstock" section, its the only rangefinder lens that shows up. I'll bet their prices jump pretty soon too.
mto'brien
Well-known
oh, i totally agree. i was using the example of what happened to fender to emphasize that this price jump of ~20% caused by a weak dollar is not that big of a deal. perhaps apples and oranges. however, if serious collectors get involved who happen to have a strong currency in a particular market, the sky is quite literally the limit. i made a small fortune off of a few fenders in the 90s and they weren't reissues. one of my favorite basses ever was a 1989 62 japanese re-issue, though. still have it, but that's a different forum.
leicashot
Well-known
FYI Australians, the Aussie dollar has jumped above the US dollar, so take advantage!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
It's highest point sinece it was floated twenty eight years ago!
I just hope our local Voigtlander distributor Scott Vanthoff of Mainline Photo is buying up big at the moment ... he's a terrific guy to deal with.
At one stage he had the best price in the world on the 15mm Heliar kit (with 21mm finder) for the M8.
leicashot
Well-known
It's highest point sinece it was floated twenty eight years ago!
I just hope our local Voigtlander distributor Scott Vanthoff of Mainline Photo is buying up big at the moment ... he's a terrific guy to deal with.
At one stage he had the best price in the world on the 15mm Heliar kit (with 21mm finder) for the M8.
Yeah Scott is great. haven't dealt with him since I left Oz, but he is a great guy and did have some killer deals with the Bessa L some years ago before the M8 I think, almost stealing prices.
lilmsmaggie
Established
And it is this type of mindset and acceptance that will continue to drive up consumer prices world-wide.
More specifically, it is this blind acceptance and willingness to buy at inflated prices together with the Federal Reserve and IMF policies that will do just the opposite of its intended result; namely, consumers will hold onto their dollars, euros, pounds, yen, etc., and buy only what they need NOT what they want. Businesses and employers as a result will employ fewer and fewer people and prices will continue to rise as demand out-paces supply.
BTW Leicashot, don't take my remarks personally. You are not unique in thinking this way and central banks around the world depend on it.
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leicashot
Well-known
I think you have some great points, and I understand where you're coming from. There has been on reason for the price hike given so it's fair enough. Price hikes aside though, I've always felt the Nokton is priced well below it's performance and therefor I still think it's not unreasonable to pay the increased price. But, considering that 'retail' prices have risen without what we believe to be an increase in import costs it seems unreasonable if the reason for increase is just that it wont be available anymore.
Maybe Stephen can clarify why the increase has occurred. I'd hate for people to jump on an increased price only to find out later that a new and improved version will be released. Then surely their new 'investment' will not be such an investment.
lilmsmaggie
Established
Krosya
Konicaze
Last few times they had something "better" or a "replacement" - it didnt really work out too well.
Krosya
Konicaze
There are a bunch on Ebay at $979 free ship:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Nok...49193817?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cafe71159
So, I dont know why some dealers expect $1200 for the same lens?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Voigtlander-Nok...49193817?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item3cafe71159
So, I dont know why some dealers expect $1200 for the same lens?
Turtle
Veteran
Stephen,
I have complained about Leica prices quite a few times and have not bought a new official import for years as a consequence. Since the price gulf on popflash between grey and official imports has narrowed that avenue is less appealing than it used to be.
The price rise from $879 to $979 three weeks ago I could understand if the price has remained unchanged for years. But why another rise from $979 to $1179 a mere 3 weeks later? It does represent a 33% increasse for someone who last checked your website a month ago when the price was $879! $979 to $1179 is still about 20% and would appear (correct me if I am wrong) due to the lens being sold out at the factory which brings me back to the point I made earlier about ethical pricing rather than controlling supply and pricing. I am not surprised Photovillage has the same price and wonder if they get their stock from you or whether theirs are grey imports. I just don't see this going on with other brands or in other product areas within photography, but perhaps this is because individual retailers tend not to be the sole official importer.
Another consequence of these price hikes is that you directly drive up the used market so lenses now cost more used than they ever did new and that hits everyone. I am quite confident that were it not for the continual escalation of prices as stocks dwindle, the used prices would be much more sensible. Instead they tend to be priced in relation to the final price on your website as the last few are sold.
While I accept you can price your products as you wish and the consumer ultimately decides, I still find it distasteful. Buying from the official importer should not IMHO be like buying from a market trader who has driven up the price of his last ten umbrellas to $100 because it is raining heavily!
You state that several other retailers are out of certain lenses, but I do not recall them hiking their prices before they ran out. They may even have run from out because you bought out all remaining stock the factory and then increased prices as the sole remaining stockist.
Used Leica lenses do go up when discontinued, but only once on the used market. New stock does not go up through the roof as prices are incrementally increased by one or a handful of importer/retailers who have control prices on the final stock. I think there is a fundamental difference here.
I have complained about Leica prices quite a few times and have not bought a new official import for years as a consequence. Since the price gulf on popflash between grey and official imports has narrowed that avenue is less appealing than it used to be.
The price rise from $879 to $979 three weeks ago I could understand if the price has remained unchanged for years. But why another rise from $979 to $1179 a mere 3 weeks later? It does represent a 33% increasse for someone who last checked your website a month ago when the price was $879! $979 to $1179 is still about 20% and would appear (correct me if I am wrong) due to the lens being sold out at the factory which brings me back to the point I made earlier about ethical pricing rather than controlling supply and pricing. I am not surprised Photovillage has the same price and wonder if they get their stock from you or whether theirs are grey imports. I just don't see this going on with other brands or in other product areas within photography, but perhaps this is because individual retailers tend not to be the sole official importer.
Another consequence of these price hikes is that you directly drive up the used market so lenses now cost more used than they ever did new and that hits everyone. I am quite confident that were it not for the continual escalation of prices as stocks dwindle, the used prices would be much more sensible. Instead they tend to be priced in relation to the final price on your website as the last few are sold.
While I accept you can price your products as you wish and the consumer ultimately decides, I still find it distasteful. Buying from the official importer should not IMHO be like buying from a market trader who has driven up the price of his last ten umbrellas to $100 because it is raining heavily!
You state that several other retailers are out of certain lenses, but I do not recall them hiking their prices before they ran out. They may even have run from out because you bought out all remaining stock the factory and then increased prices as the sole remaining stockist.
Used Leica lenses do go up when discontinued, but only once on the used market. New stock does not go up through the roof as prices are incrementally increased by one or a handful of importer/retailers who have control prices on the final stock. I think there is a fundamental difference here.
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Darshan
Well-known
I believe such direct accusatory language should not be used on a public forum without convincing insider knowledge of how Stephen's business runs. I have bought a couple of times from him and had nothing but positive experience. I am not trying to change your belief, my point is our arguments should be civil enough to suit a public forum.
P.S: this thread is killing me financially as I have been trying to get the Nokton for a couple of weeks now and everybody is hiking their used price. I am still hopeful that I will get this lens at a decent price, but considering my limited budget I am not going to cry sour grapes.
R
Roberto
Guest
shi*. I do need a second/back-up copy of that lens in the long run. now more than ever.
I bought mine like new for half that money.
And thanks to the last RFF Euro meeting I bought mine.. I didn't resist after seeing you guys with that beauty, now I really need to thank you all, since I bought it before the price change...
leicashot
Well-known
Dan, I understand where you're coming from, and Turtle was being a little overly direct. While this is something that should be more of a question than accusation, Turtle has some fair points here and there is no indication of a price rise from Cosina, so its fair to wonder why the prices 'needed' to rise.
Having said that, while a bit more of an explanation from Stephen would have been helpful, he really doesn't need to explain himself anymore, no matter how much people dislike the price increase. He has the right to price as he sees fit as long as it's within Cosina's pricing policy, and we have to accept it or look elsewhere.
Stephen seems to be a fair enough guy and I have faith that he's not trying to capitalize in this situation, but I am also in no position to speak on his behalf. Even if he is, he's no being unlawful, and we need to respect his business decisions whether we agree or not. I saw a similar thing happen when a retailer decided to temporarily hike prices on M8/M9 batteries during the M9's first year out and no one spoke up. It's only fair and understanding that consumers, like all of us want to question such marketing changes in an environment that doesn't see such hikes regularly.
Either way, the price has increased and it shouldn't be ruining anyone's day. There are more important things to concentrate on in our lives.
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time
Established
It seems that the Nokton 1.2 is out of production.
I ordered one today after considering a ZM 35 f2 and this one.
I ordered one today after considering a ZM 35 f2 and this one.
filmfan
Well-known
Can someone explain to me why capitalizing on this situation is wrong? (especially given the nature of the capitalist society we choose to live in)
leicashot
Well-known
To answer this question is to cross the line here. We shouldn't turn this thread into an ethics thread. The fact is that Stephen has set his price, has nothing to answer for, and we must accept it or move on - like it or not.
filmfan
Well-known
Only if one's incapacity to be diplomatic gets in the way... certainly we are all capable of being both honest AND appropriate.
I agree.