35/1.2 Nokton price raise?

filmfan said:
Only if one's incapacity to be diplomatic gets in the way... certainly we are all capable of being both honest AND appropriate.



I agree.
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As much as I love this forum, I've never seen an ethical conversation stay appropriate in any forum so not sure we should go there.
 
leicashot said:
Dan, I understand where you're coming from, and Turtle was being a little overly direct. .
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That seems fair; I was a little too direct and my 'thoughts' were certainly not an accusation, just a question I asked out loud after seeing this pattern with a number of Cameraquest CV products (lenses, finders etc). Regardless, Stephen can and will run his business as he sees fit and my opinion is nothing more than that. There are discussions about various retailers on this site and I cannot see why this would be any different, my directness aside (and corrected).

It looks to be a tremendously good lens but I feel that the price no longer makes it such a desirable one, esp as it is so big and would be owned as a second 35mm by many people. $1200 for a CV lens is a bit steep for me, but I am sure others will still see it as a bargain. I might as well scour for a $2600 lux asph and sell my Biogon. That will leave about $700 worse off, but 500g+ lighter and with one lens only to worry about.
 
Leicashot has a point. Sooner or later, this topic could take a negative turn. We participate in a Free Market, as such, a business owner has a right to set prices for goods and services based on the competition between business participants in that market.

Bottomline: The forces that drive prices come down to supply and demand:

It concludes that in a competitive market, the unit price for a particular good will vary until it settles at a point where the quantity demanded by consumers (at current price) will equal the quantity supplied by producers (at current price), resulting in an economic equilibrium of price and quantity.

The four basic laws of supply and demand are:
  1. If demand increases and supply remains unchanged then higher equilibrium price and unchanged quantity.
  2. If demand decreases and supply remains the same then lower equilibrium price and unchanged quantity.
  3. If supply increases and demand remains unchanged then lower equilibrium price and higher quantity.
  4. If supply decreases and demand remains the same then higher price and lower quantity.
The only problem I have is not with Stephen prices. It's the fact that the state of California in which his business and I both reside requires him to collect state sales taxes. Those sales taxes are based on the county where his business is located, not the county where I happen to reside within the state. Stephen is in one part of the state of California, and I reside in another. If we were both in the same county, I would be more than glad to pay the sales tax because I would otherwise have to pay them if I chose to buy from a retailer within the same county where the tax is based and the county most likely to benefit from those taxes collected.

But that's not Stephens fault. He's simply operatings within the rules. As a consumer, I have to accept it, pay the tax, or look elsewhere. Unfortuanetly for many retailers such as Stephen Gandy, is that they potentially loose sales because the consumer is looking for the best and lowest price and that's not including shipping or other charges.

So if a consumer residing in California would really like to support a local business, all things being equal (identical product) that consumer is taking into account price + tax + shipping costs.

Guess where that consumer is likely to spend their discretionary dollars?

Once again, don't get me wrong - I'm not finding fault or placing blame.

As consumers, the choice is always ours.
 
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snausages said:
$200 over MSRP seems like a fair premium to pay for a lens that is no longer being produced.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with cameraquest or Stephen but that mindset bothers me.

If I was a retailer who had bought a certain number of units of anything from a supplier, I could not in all conscience jack my price above MSRP if I discovered it was a high demand discontinued item ... even if I knew people would willingly pay the premium.

That sort of thing just doesn't work for me sorry ... it's my personal feeling and maybe I'm wrong but I'm stuck with it!
 
Keith said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with cameraquest or Stephen but that mindset bothers me.

If I was a retailer who had bought a certain number of units of anything from a supplier, I could not in all conscience jack my price above MSRP if I discovered it was a high demand discontinued item ... even if I knew people would willingly pay the premium.

That sort of thing just doesn't work for me sorry ... it's my personal feeling and maybe I'm wrong but I'm stuck with it!
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I'm right there with you. It also put me in limbo as I have recently made the decision to buy this 35mm, just was waiting a few extra weeks after paying Sherry for a CLA on a body and a lens. Then the price goes up to where I'm on the fence again. If Adorama keeps it's stock at the $979 they've had it, I guess I have no choice but to take that route, but I'm not paying what the Cameraquest site is asking, I'd rather get one on evilBay.
 
Let's start a rumor of a new Voigtländer 35mm f1/.0 - that should depress the prices of the old 35mm f/1.2 lenses back to where they were :p
 
I take back my above statement, the lens has vanished from Adorama's site, "no longer available".
evilBay it is, dammit! :(
 
These are niche products, and when they become discontinued- they are immediate cult classics. That means they cost more.

I can't believe the insane prices for the Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2. It is at least 6 times what it went for a few years ago. It is also 6 times more than the Canon Aspherical lenses in FD mount. They are every bit as good, but the Nikkor has acheived cult status. And then there is the Leica 50/1.2- even more insane given its performance across the entire image. It goes from best in its class at the center of the image to worst 1/3 out, best 2/3rds out, and worst again at far edge. I've always been skeptical about consumer grade aspherical optics, that it is carried out with enough precision to "actually be worth it".
 
I definitely understand they turn into cult hits, and really I'm all for it because it deserves it, it's a great lens. It just so happens this one time it bit me in the a$$ because right as I was ready to buy one, I'm watching it go from affordable awesomeness, to highly priced discontinued awesomeness. Mainly it's just me kicking myself for not grabbing one earlier, even a week ago.
 
Keith said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with cameraquest or Stephen but that mindset bothers me.

If I was a retailer who had bought a certain number of units of anything from a supplier, I could not in all conscience jack my price above MSRP if I discovered it was a high demand discontinued item ... even if I knew people would willingly pay the premium.

That sort of thing just doesn't work for me sorry ... it's my personal feeling and maybe I'm wrong but I'm stuck with it!
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Keith I'm sure many people here agree with you, including myself. From a marketing perspective by retailers doing this, they then shape the perception of the product into a 'legendary status' which will also help the brand, so for all we know, it's not Stephen alone doing this, but it could be coming from the powers above.

Luckily, I got myself one of the last cheap units from Amazon/Photovillage, before they increased the price (this morning), following my purchase :D

Anyone want one for $1198.99? Just kidding ;)
 
leicashot said:
Keith I'm sure many people here agree with you, including myself. From a marketing perspective by retailers doing this, they then shape the perception of the product into a 'legendary status' which will also help the brand, so for all we know, it's not Stephen alone doing this, but it could be coming from the powers above.

Luckily, I got myself one of the last cheap units from Amazon/Photovillage, before they increased the price (this morning), following my purchase :D

Anyone want one for $1198.99? Just kidding ;)
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Once all current stocks of the lens have been sold it will be interesting to see where the used market goes. The 50mm f1.2 Canon has climbed steadily since I bought mine for under $300.00 a couple of years ago and that's a very quirky lens IMO and not to every one's taste. The Nokton's just a brilliant lens with few faults so who knows what it will be fetching five years from now and it certainly seems to have the build quality to go the distance.
 
I'm sure Stephen could access the figures ... it would be interesting to know!
 
All I have to say is thank gawd, for once, rff hype surrounds something I do have. :)

Carry on...
 
Strange times for Cosina, lately they have discontinued lenses people praise almost universally and replace them products that are quite controversial.


Edit :
I have decided to not buy this lens even though I think it might be an investment rather than purchase. I have several CV lenses and rarely use them . But then, I do have too many cameras, formats, systems. Better to use what I already, than buy new stuff. Of course I must check out what replaces the 35 1.2.
 
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