35/1.4 shootout take II

And lastly, here’s some crops of the bokeh, taken from right side. So that’s it, I won’t bore you all with any more of these comparison shots ;)

@ F1.4


@ F2


@ F2.8


@ F4


@ F5.6
 
Thanks for the awesome comparisons!
Is it possible to post the full f1.4 images from the Asph and pre-Asph for comparison of the full image between the 4 lenses?

The bokeh crops show what I'm always telling, the bokeh of the pre-asph looks as harsh as the Nokton bokeh at 1.4 (as a matter of fact the bokeh of most fast 35mm looks kinda harsh wide open) The nokton get's much smoother at 2.0. From 2.8 on all lenses level out and seem to start looking very much the same in the bokeh compartement.
 
Wow, Nokton's focus shift is in a "Sonnar league".

I had Nokton 40 and never noticed it shifting so much. Maybe 40 is a bit better than 35 in that regard?
 
brbo said:
Wow, Nokton's focus shift is in a "Sonnar league".

I had Nokton 40 and never noticed it shifting so much. Maybe 40 is a bit better than 35 in that regard?
Click to expand...

The Nokton also seems to be back focusing wide open....well something is strange there, then it comes forward at f/2 and back again after.

I would question the calibration of that copy, or perhaps the shooter just missed, which as we all know is not hard to do. That degree of focus shift would be famous if it applied to all the CV 35/1.4 lenses.

But check the DOF of the Nokton wide open. It goes way back.
 
uhoh7 said:
The Nokton also seems to be back focusing wide open....well something is strange there, then it comes forward at f/2 and back again after.

I would question the calibration of that copy, or perhaps the shooter just missed, which as we all know is not hard to do. That degree of focus shift would be famous if it applied to all the CV 35/1.4 lenses.

But check the DOF of the Nokton wide open. It goes way back.
Click to expand...

Focus was not adjusted between shots. Only the aperture was adjusted. The camera was on a tripod and the shutter was fired using a cable release. I think the main problem is that the Nokton is a bit soft wide open which makes the focus point not as clear as it otherwise could be.
 
jonmanjiro said:
Focus was not adjusted between shots. Only the aperture was adjusted. The camera was on a tripod and the shutter was fired using a cable release. I think the main problem is that the Nokton is a bit soft wide open which makes the focus point not as clear as it otherwise could be.
Click to expand...

Looking at the wide open CV shot note blur in front and compare to back, then to others. In fact the lens seems pretty clearly back focused to me in all the last set of shots. At first I thought f/2 was right on, but now I think it is back as well. The rest of the lenses are spot on.

I've shot the CV 35/1.4 quite a bit on the M9, though it's not my main 35. I never had big problems with focus shift.


L1016886 by unoh7, WO

next day at f/4:

L1016962 by unoh7, on Flickr

am I just lucky?

This is the MC version, but that can't make a difference.

Also in the first set the CV clearly beats the pre-asph in the center WO, yet I think the reverse seems true indoors. Maybe I'm crazy LOL

I think maybe it shows how hard it is to do a perfect test with the M9, as the pre-asph might not have infinity calibrated for the distance of the first set.

I agree the Bokeh of pre-asph and CV is really close, pretty neat. One has to wonder how closely the pre-asph design was studied at cosina, and how the CV was formulated. Both lenses seem to have considerable copy variation.

Here is someone else adamant there is no focus shift with his CV 35/1.4 LOL

but then he retests and finds slight shift ;)
 
uhoh7 said:
The Nokton also seems to be back focusing wide open....well something is strange there, then it comes forward at f/2 and back again after.
Click to expand...
Well, I can't see that. It seems pretty well focused wide open (hard to guess the exact in-focus point since it's a bit soft generally but I would hardly call it misfocused) and I definitely can't see focus shifting to the front @f2. It's evidently shifting to the back. You are probably looking at the wrong lens (Nokton is 3rd from left)?
 
I remember when I was buying my Nokton SC was reading reviews that all complained how the bokeh was distracting, nervous etc and nothing at all like the dreamy luscious smokey goo from a pre asph Summilux ;)
 
Lss said:
It looks quite normal based on a quick look. Just check the bottom left-hand corner of the crop.
Click to expand...
Well, this was based on viewing the thread on an iPad. I now had a quick look at the full-size images, and the result of the Nokton is not exactly what I expected around f/4 to f/5.6. The detail in the bottom corner should get more into focus beyond f/2. This may be due, e.g., to alignment of the camera to the subject, so I wouldn't read too much into it.
 
uhoh7 said:
I've shot the CV 35/1.4 quite a bit on the M9, though it's not my main 35. I never had big problems with focus shift.
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly, you have a Sony A7R right? One way to see how much focus shift the Nokton exhibits would be to mount your Nokton 35/1.4 MC on it, mount the rig on a tripod, focus on something about 0.70 meters away, turn live view on, then starting at F1.4 stop the lens down gradually and see what happens. Even better, make a video, upload it somewhere, then link it here. My money is on the point of focus shifting noticeably backward as you stop down, but I'm happy to be proven wrong :)
 
I also had no focus problems with my Nokton (MC), although the shift is existent.
I think there's sample variation between different Noktons and Jonmanjiros seems to be slightly backfocused wide open and shifts the focus even further to the back as it's stopped down.
 
To show my thesis about Nokton sample variation. I did a quick test (on film) a couple of hours ago:

Nokton 35/1.4 on Leica M2, focused at 0.7m:

nokton3514MCfocustest70cm.jpg


at 1m:
nokton3514MCfocustest1m.jpg


Mine is slightly front focusing at 1.4, focus starts shifting backwards at 2.0 and 2.8. Shifting seems to stop around 4.0
The depth of field covers the focused point on all apertures.

Also on film it seems much less critical then on digital.
 
Filzkoeter said:
I also had no focus problems with my Nokton (MC), although the shift is existent.
I think there's sample variation between different Noktons and Jonmanjiros seems to be slightly backfocused wide open and shifts the focus even further to the back as it's stopped down.
Click to expand...

Yes that's what I see, basically.

@jon yes I also have A7.mod and will check focus variation.

I've learned a number of interesting things in the past week from this thread and one at FM:

CV 35/1.4 is close knock off of pre-asph: i did not know that.
The lens has some focus shift, not huge usually but it exists. This will help alot in future use on M9.

Anyway I love your tests :)
 
Thanks for this test Jon. I know I most likely will never own any of these lenses but I still love to receive the information on them and enjoy the photos.
 
Most 35/1.4 lenses are out of my usual budget too (especially the FLE). But, the CV lenses are an exception. This test showing the close similarity of the pre-asph and the Nokton makes me comfortable with the idea of getting one of those (the CV). I don't mind working "with" a lens when it remains an all-around good performer. I've had quite different experiences with other lenses over the years :)

I need to look and see how the new ZM 35/1.4 is priced relative to the pre-asph and noktons? Considering the similar behaviors we've seen between those two....wonder what the Zeiss lens is like. I mean, there is the Cosina factor here.
 
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