Conscience? Indecision? Moral Dilemma? Or What?

[shadowfox]

For me?
Yes, it's insane.
I get a lot of kick/fun/art/return from a $40 camera made in the 60's and a few rolls of film.
Why would I ever *need* or *want* a camera *body only* that is 7k.
That's a lot of money that I can use for a lot of things in my life and others.

But of course, it's your money, spend it as you wish and don't waste time with regrets. 🙂

 

[majid]

It's an academic question, as the waiting list is 1 year on the M.

 

[kxl]

If you are not using your DSLR and you don't know if you can bring yourself to spend big on an M240 then it sounds as you you don't have the passion for photography.

And you'd be wrong. The reason I don't use the DSLR these days is because I prefer using my ZI's and Sony NEX.

Back in the summer of 2008, I faced the same situation.

I thought about it and decided "screw it."

Yes, $7000 for an M240 is pretty damn salty, just like $6500 for a lens is pretty damn salty. These facts beg the question: SO FREAKING WHAT??

Postscript:
I still have my f/1 Noctilux. Not one time in the past five years have I regretted selling the Mamiya 7 II kit, nor have I regretted paying what was for me a king's ransom for my Noctilux.

I applaud your courage in making the leap - that is EXACTLY where I am at today. "Screw it" and "So freaking what?" are probably the attitudes that I need to adopt. Thanks for the kick in the pants. 🙂

 

[clayne]

It's 7000$ dollars guys - and in my mind it's chasing phantom allure of some *thing* that's supposed to be the end-all-be-all-yadda-yadda and Leica is laughing all the way to the bank. They depend on this mystique factor and people who buy into it play it up (almost because they have to).

I wouldn't be paying 7k$ for a Noctilux either when I could produce the same images from a 500$ lens (Rokkor 58/1.2MC) on a 50$ camera - and, if I wanted to, say they were taken with a Noctilux and people would believe it. I'm not paying 14 times for something that's 2% different just because everyone tells me I should be doing it.

Do we lack the critical thinking to examine this for what it is or are our wallets controlled by mystique and marketing? Do not let emotion and "potentiality" control your money. This is what they want. Unless you're entirely limited by the cameras you have now, it's a zero-sum game (and usually a loss) to sell everything and buy something else.

 

[jarski]

- Conscience? Indecision? Moral Dilemma? Or What?

- sounds like symptoms of gear acquisition syndrome aka G.A.S. its like a flu, will pass after few days or week max.

 

[sleepyhead]

Back in the summer of 2008, I faced the same situation.

The f/1 Noctilux had just beed discontinued. I had poked at the idea of getting a Noctilux off and on for years and had never taken the plunge when they were priced at $3200 USD. Now, in the summer of 2008, that damned supply and demand thing had driven the price up to $6500 USD.

I thought about it and decided "screw it." I had about $2000 ready cash available. I decided to sell off my seldom used Mamiya 7 II kit to raise the additional $4500 needed to get the Noctilux. So I did. I was able to get one of the last of the last standard edition Noctiluxes to enter the U.S. (mine is not one of the "Last 100 Noctiluxes" that sold for $16,000).

Yes, $7000 for an M240 is pretty damn salty, just like $6500 for a lens is pretty damn salty. These facts beg the question: SO FREAKING WHAT??

If you can afford the M240 without selling a kidney, running a meth lab, making your wife turn tricks, stealing several elderly people's social security checks or robbing a bank, then I say JUST DO IT.

Postscript:
I still have my f/1 Noctilux. Not one time in the past five years have I regretted selling the Mamiya 7 II kit, nor have I regretted paying what was for me a king's ransom for my Noctilux.

Your analogy with the purchase of a Noctilux isn't quite the same as the OPs dilemma about the M240. The former will be usable forever on many future camera platforms, whilst the later will be outdated and probably un-economically repairable within 10 years.

 

[clayne]

Yep. A car depreciates less.

You're basically buying a 7000$ computer that will be worth 200-500$ a decade from now.

 

[thegman]

I think there are a few points here:

1) You may get hit by a bus tomorrow, spend money on what makes you happy.
2) If you're anything like me, a camera cannot make you happy, but travel might.
3) Clayne is right, an M240 is a computer, and devalues at a similar rate.
4) Stephen is probably right, get a used M9 for 1/3rd the cost.

When it comes down to it, get what you want, only you can decide if it's too much money for a single camera.

From a personal viewpoint, it's far too much money, it's not a matter of affording it, it's a matter of how it feels in my gut, it's just too much money for not enough benefit.

Having said that, I'll probably buy a Fotoman 45SPS soon, a far less flexible camera than the Wista I had before it, and no cheaper. The heart wants what the heart wants though, and you really do have to decide for yourself.

I'd much rather spend the money going to the Cook Islands with my OM2n though.

 

[thegman]

some people don't travel because there is nothing tangible afterwards to hold onto...

I used to feel that way, I thought 'holiday or new computer?', easy, new computer! After a week or two the travel is over, and you only have memories.

But then I went to some good places like Bangkok, Tokyo, Hawai'i, San Francisco, and my views have turned on their head. The memories are way better than any computer I had at the time.

I completely get it, I used to feel that way too, but travelling somewhere you really want to go is on a different level for me.

There is crappy travel too of course, and I won't name destinations in case it's someone's home town or something. I've been a couple of places which I really did not like simply because someone said 'you'll love it, it's amazing' even though my instinct said I would not.

The rose tinted spectacles make it seem OK now though.

What I really mean is go where you want to go, it does not matter if it 'great for street photography' or not, just go where you want to go.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

You mentioned travel and so I'd suggest selling everything and spend the money on travel.

But, before you go, look around for one of those brilliant, compact, P&S's with a zoom lens. I'm thinking Pentax ESPIO 928, Nikon Zoom 90S, Olympus mju zoom 80 wide etc, etc. meaning a 28 to 90 zoom; ideal for travel; the 28m end covers places and the 90mm covers people and details. They are dirt cheap, you could buy two or three for a tenner and get them checked and tested. Then go on your round the world trip or whatever with two of them (one as a back up). You could even have colour film in one and B&W in the other.

There's a non zoom alternative like the Leica mini, Minolta mini, Olympus mju, Konica A4 and so on. All dirt cheap and yet perfect for travellers. Some of them could be bought out of the change in your pocket without you noticing the money's gone...

Fancy and expensive cameras can nag you to buy them but they still depreciate, as you'll discover when you sell your present gear. Plus they need a tripod to bring out the best in them. Plus have you enough wall space for all those bill boards they can make for you? And you'll need two of them anyway as a back up is essential when doing important stuff. And they can be and are stolen...

Moreover, if you are good enough for the 240 then you ought to be able to squeeze a lot out of a cheapo camera with a decent lens. And then you can afford that travel you've always wanted. Or you could sit at home with the 240 and photograph the cat, again... ;-) (Only joking but putting all your cash into one expensive camera will restrict everything else you'd like to spend the cash on.)

Regards, David

 

[Addy101]

If you think it is worth it for you, go out and buy that M if you can afford it.
If you have to sacrifice anything for it, don't. There are other cameras for a lot less money.

And look at it like this: the economy isn't that hot, especially in Europe. Buying a German camera could be considered development aid ;-)

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Interesting dilema.

For what it's worth, my approach is to buy what I want, then sell stuff to make up the balance at the bank. Mind you, I never spend that much on cameras and such like. What's more, I generally break even, or better, on the stuff I sell.

The amount you're thinking of spending is way beyond what I'd consider spending on any gadget. I bought my car, new, for not much more last year. Still, everyone is different.

You asked for advice: if you have doubts, don't; if they clear away, do.

 

[VF101]

I'd never spend that much money on a single camera. Mostly because I could not use it without always being worried that it might break. And there are good enough cameras for about 1000$, which I think you would not really see a difference in the end.

OTOH though, finding your peace of mind could really be worth that price.

And look at it like this: the economy isn't that hot, especially in Europe. Buying a German camera could be considered development aid ;-)

Yes, there are economical problems all across Europe, but Germany's economy is thriving for several years now. No need for development aid now. 🙂

 

[Addy101]

Yes, there are economical problems all across Europe, but Germany's economy is thriving for several years now. No need for development aid now. 🙂

Aha, a German in denial :angel:
Germans economy struggles, it might be better then most other European countries but it still struggles.

So, if you can afford it, buy European, even if it is German 😉

 

[clayne]

Having said that, I'll probably buy a Fotoman 45SPS soon, a far less flexible camera than the Wista I had before it, and no cheaper.

Coincidentally, I just picked up an M450! For the grand total of 375$. Will be putting some 200 megapixel film through it as soon as my copal 0 adapter board arrives.

 

[thegman]

Coincidentally, I just picked up an M450! For the grand total of 375$. Will be putting some 200 megapixel film through it as soon as my copal 0 adapter board arrives.

Very nice. My Wista was pretty much a work of art, but I never took it anywhere. I think a Fotoman 45SPS or perhaps a Razzledog would get me using 4x5 outside of my home. I'm leaning towards the Fotoman though, as I used to have a Fotoman 69, and it was a superb camera.

 

[Godfrey]

It's 7000$ dollars guys - and in my mind it's chasing phantom allure of some *thing* that's supposed to be the end-all-be-all-yadda-yadda and Leica is laughing all the way to the bank. They depend on this mystique factor and people who buy into it play it up (almost because they have to).

I wouldn't be paying 7k$ for a Noctilux either when I could produce the same images from a 500$ lens (Rokkor 58/1.2MC) on a 50$ camera - and, if I wanted to, say they were taken with a Noctilux and people would believe it. I'm not paying 14 times for something that's 2% different just because everyone tells me I should be doing it.

Do we lack the critical thinking to examine this for what it is or are our wallets controlled by mystique and marketing? Do not let emotion and "potentiality" control your money. This is what they want. Unless you're entirely limited by the cameras you have now, it's a zero-sum game (and usually a loss) to sell everything and buy something else.

Regardless of what you think, it's not the same thing. I've had the $50 camera with the $500 lens too. It's only the same thing if you can't see the differences,and that's a matter of your eye, not the equipment.

I couldn't give a darn about brand or status. An M is just a camera, albeit an expensive one. Every camera sees differently, every lens too. If you can see the difference, and if you can afford it, and if you want one, there's nothing quite the same.

An M won't make you a better photographer. It's just good, solid equipment to use as you pursue that goal.

G

 

[clayne]

I have an M, sir. I just don't have or intend to ever have a 7000$ M or *any* 7000$ camera for that matter.

Sheesh, we're talking about 7000 dollar cameras here. I can't believe some of the justifications I hear about spending that much money on a single piece of gear. "Oh, well if that's what makes you feel better, than by all means, buy it" type of stuff.

I don't buy the mystique/marketing angle. We need to be collectively critical of this, not continually enabling it.

 

[shadowfox]

I have an M, sir. I just don't have or intend to ever have a 7000$ M or *any* 7000$ camera for that matter.

Sheesh, we're talking about 7000 dollar cameras here. I can't believe some of the justifications I hear about spending that much money on a single piece of gear. "Oh, well if that's what makes you feel better, than by all means, buy it" type of stuff.

I don't buy the mystique/marketing angle. We need to be collectively critical of this, not continually enabling it.

Friend, I agree with you.
But some people will gladly pay what Leica asks.
There is little we can do about the power of the "mystique" (actually I call it excellent branding strategy).

It is fair. People like you and I will not buy ultra-expensive gears, not because we don't have the money, but because we know we don't need it and we have better use of the fund anyway.

Others will buy those gears because they can justify it. How they justify it, it's their business, but we have to respect their choices as fellow individuals.

One thing we all can celebrate is even in this increasingly messed up world, at least we still can make the choice.

 

[Godfrey]

I have an M, sir. I just don't have or intend to ever have a 7000$ M or *any* 7000$ camera for that matter.

Sheesh, we're talking about 7000 dollar cameras here. I can't believe some of the justifications I hear about spending that much money on a single piece of gear. "Oh, well if that's what makes you feel better, than by all means, buy it" type of stuff.

I don't buy the mystique/marketing angle. We need to be collectively critical of this, not continually enabling it.

The M is not the only camera in this price class. It isn't even the most expensive one. So you don't want to spend that kind of money ... Then don't. But that's your judgement and decision.

It's a rude over-generalization to disparage other folks' judgement and decision simply because you disagree with them. And their decisions might have just as little to do with marketing and mystique as you purport yours do.

G