Leica LTM Creepy Old Cameras

[hipsterdufus]

I suppose it is also a good guys/bad guys thing. I would love to have an allied military camera in my collection, as long as it worked.

Let's keep this going.

You should look into the Leitz Wollensak screwmount lenses that were made in America from WWII during our embargo against Germany.

Back to the original point, I wouldn't feel too weird about owning a Nazi camera. By owning the camera, it doesn't mean you're a Nazi. If you want to feel better about owning one, make a photo project with the camera showcasing how awesome diversity is. 😀

 

[Pastor Chris]

... and it could just as easily have belonged to a Nazi.

I could have belonged to a Nazi and then sold to a serial killer and then a circus clown, all scary prospects, but speculation and certain knowledge are two different things and neither really get to the point of the original post: what have you all gone through in a similar circumstance?

 

[Pastor Chris]

It is interesting to me that for this particular camera, you can re-trace at least part of it's past. I often wonder where or for what purpose my used equipment has been used for in the past - but often there is no real way of knowing. Who knows where most of the 1930's/early 1940's equipment was during the war - or what it was used to photograph? Interesting, if not scary, to think about.

I think that this is one of the great fascinations about using old equipment; it's history. It is quite possible that the camera in question was used by a Nazi officer only for taking photos of his children whom he missed very much. We'll never know. But for me, history is part of that value of an item, otherwise why collect old stuff? The potential for uncomfortable stories is greater in something marked as such. It continues to be an interesting thing to wonder about, hence this post. Thanks for your input.

 

[Michael Markey]

It touches people different ways .
My dear old grandmother would never buy anything that was made in Japan because she lost one of her sons in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

One has to respect differing sensitivities about such things.

 

[S.H.]

I would not have any problem with a Luftwaffe Leica, it is just a bureaucratic marking on a tool which does nothing wrong by itself (I would have problems with swastikas, SS memorabilia, or any gun). I would think about what it could have recorded, but that is the case with any prewar camera.

I also have a military (RAF) Pentac, creepy thoughts never crossed my mind about it. Strange, as photo recon before/after a bombing (Dresden anyone?) is also a creepy subject.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

It was a piece of gear issued to a military photographer, that's it in my opinion.

What about collecting cameras used by the US military? One man's liberator is another man's warlord. In the case of where I was working, it was one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

What if a camera turned out to be the one carried on the Enola Gay used to shoot stills of Hiroshima a few seconds after being destroyed?

It can be argued that the US regime has been one of the bloodiest in modern history but because there is a supposedly benevolent cause behind the death we deal in, we're not counted among the aforementioned regimes though it can be clearly stated that we have been responsible for millions of deaths.

Personally, I'm more creeped out by Bayer aspirin than any piece of actual military hardware used by any regime in the past.

Phil Forrest

 

[redisburning]

I wouldn't have kept it myself.

a regular wartime Leica is a bit different.

 

[emraphoto]

I feel I wouldn't touch NKVD camera. Well, I could pick it, explore and such, but I wouldn't like to keep or use it. I'm not too sensitive about auras and such but sure I wouldn't want to connect myself with killer squad even by camera. Western people often feel romantic about USSR (cliches - cold vodka, hot girls, FEDs and AK-47's), we near Russia have too much memories from the past...

No, romantic isn't the word and hot girls isn't a Russian cliche in my parts 😉

 

[n5jrn]

I would have had it CLA'ed and kept it, but left the vile NAZI insignia obliterated as it well ought to have been.

 

[n5jrn]

I feel I wouldn't touch NKVD camera. Well, I could pick it, explore and such, but I wouldn't like to keep or use it. I'm not too sensitive about auras and such but sure I wouldn't want to connect myself with killer squad even by camera. Western people often feel romantic about USSR (cliches - cold vodka, hot girls, FEDs and AK-47's), we near Russia have too much memories from the past...

The FED brand itself honors Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky, the head of the Cheka (predecessor to first the NKVD and later the KGB) under Lenin.

 

[thegman]

I would have had it CLA'ed and kept it, but left the vile NAZI insignia obliterated as it well ought to have been.

Hmm, if it's been obliterated, fine, I would not have it restored or anything like that, but I can't go along with destroying historical artefacts because they represent something terrible. I'd hate to think that if an old slave ship was discovered, that it would immediately be scuttled simply because it's purpose was barbaric.

I get the sentiment, but history is history, and generally I think we should strive to preserve it, and not just the pleasant stuff.

 

[n5jrn]

Hmm, if it's been obliterated, fine, I would not have it restored or anything like that, but I can't go along with destroying historical artefacts because they represent something terrible. I'd hate to think that if an old slave ship was discovered, that it would immediately be scuttled simply because it's purpose was barbaric.

I get the sentiment, but history is history, and generally I think we should strive to preserve it, and not just the pleasant stuff.

It's the purpose, I think. If an old slave ship was restored for the purpose of glorifying slave society, I'd be all for torching the thing. If the same ship were restored for the purpose of remembering the victims of those atrocities, I'd completely support the effort.

The problem is that there's collectors of NAZI stuff who do so because they idealize the NAZI regime. The camera itself wasn't destroyed; the swastika on it was simply obliterated. Plus, the act of obliteration itself is now a historical act.

 

[Pherdinand]

you know..just yesterday we had a discussion with some colleagues.
Fanta is a nazi invention, too. Do you drink creepy fanta?😀

 

[thegman]

It's the purpose, I think. If an old slave ship was restored for the purpose of glorifying slave society, I'd be all for torching the thing. If the same ship were restored for the purpose of remembering the victims of those atrocities, I'd completely support the effort.

The problem is that there's collectors of NAZI stuff who do so because they idealize the NAZI regime. The camera itself wasn't destroyed; the swastika on it was simply obliterated. Plus, the act of obliteration itself is now a historical act.

Agree about the obliteration, that itself is history too.

I think that the problem lies with the collectors though, not the objects. I do appreciate what you mean though, and it's a fine line.

 

[nikon_sam]

I think that this is one of the great fascinations about using old equipment; it's history. It is quite possible that the camera in question was used by a Nazi officer only for taking photos of his children whom he missed very much. We'll never know. But for me, history is part of that value of an item, otherwise why collect old stuff? The potential for uncomfortable stories is greater in something marked as such. It continues to be an interesting thing to wonder about, hence this post. Thanks for your input.

Right now, you're the only one who really knows the history behind this camera...if you would have kept it, restored or not, used it or placed it on a shelf...you would still be the only one who knows of it's past...therefore the only time you would have "the potential for uncomfortable stories" is if you told someone of it's past...
You had to research to find it's past, you had to really look at the scratched out engraving and only put two & two together after finding information from another item...
Most people looking at this camera will never know of it's past life unless you tell them...and to them it would just be another old camera and not creepy at all...I'm sure we've all done things in our past we'd like to forget or wouldn't want anyone to know about (but we had a choice) this camera didn't...this camera isn't creepy but one of it's previous owners might have been...

 

[Pastor Chris]

Very interesting comments so far. I find it especially interesting to hear from those who are from other parts of the world and what would be creepy for them.

Sam, you bring up and interesting point about who knows what with regards to history. Is it better for society at large to know certain stories or to suppress them? I would hope to err on the side of telling the story and not being history's editor, although there is a degree to which that is not possible to avoid. As Pilate asked, "What is truth?"

Good stuff folks, keep chiming in.

Chris

 

[sleepyhead]

As a Jew, and someone with a personal connection to some awfull events that occurred in the period of time in question, I would probably keep such a camera and use it.

This is partly because I love cameras and I do not blame an inanimate instrument for how it might have been/was used, and partly because I would likely get a private kick occasionally thinking that my people and religion and ideas live on, whilst the regime that tried to destroy it is gone.

 

[Pastor Chris]

As a Jew, and someone with a personal connection to some awfull events that occurred in the period of time in question, I would probably keep such a camera and use it.

This is partly because I love cameras and I do not blame an inanimate instrument for how it might have been/was used, and partly because I would likely get a private kick occasionally thinking that my people and religion and ideas live on, whilst the regime that tried to destroy it is gone.

Dig it sleepyhead.

 

[ray*j*gun]

I have a IIIc stepper that is a (K) and from what I understand they were made for the military. Mine happens to be museum quality. I had it mechanically refurbished including new curtains and I use it although very carefully. I really never gave a thought to the Nazi connection if there was one. To me German cameras of that era were simply too good to ignore for any reason.

 

[healyzh]

Realistically there is no way of knowing what horrible stuff a camera may or may not have photographed. For example, how would you know what horrors my Nikon FM2 has photographed. I on the other hand am only to well aware of that, and I also know that the camera was simply a tool that can be used to document a tragedy. The real question is what was the motive of the photographer in taking those photo's. In my case, I simply thought I was going to have a very rare opportunity to photograph a Submarine at sea. Until the hatch on the Submarine was popped, I didn't know that she was on fire, and it wasn't until even later that I knew three sailors had lost their lives.

A camera is a tool, just like a gun. Both can do good, or they can be put to evil uses. If used for evil, it is the users fault, and not that of the tool.

Besides I rather like Sleepyhead's take on the question, and would like to add that to me it seems somehow appropriate to take such a tool and to use it for good.