Does Leica need money? (M8 horror)

[gavinlg]

I remember seeing footage of a Nikon D something or other being run under a tap to get salt water off it! 😛

Actually when you look at how simple a design the M series are it wouldn't have been so hard to weather seal the M8?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oDvgDDmSDE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv2oR_RzIR4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmoskUtCnoY&feature=related


Wouldn't try that with a nikon!

 

[retow]

If facts are accurately stated, than this is a thread worth reading and remembering. That condensation can put a M8 out of business is one thing, Leica's way of dealing with the technical issue another.
Again, if true, I don't like either of the two!

 

[reinierv]

I will take any bet that I can not provide written statements from tour members that this story is accurate, if needed.

Yes, I'm amazed too that my beloved M8 failed on me due to condensation but I'm even more shocked by the behavior of Leica on this matter. That the ducth insurance companies no longer want to insure M8s against this situation is clear enough for anyone with doubts.

for those who follow more fora...you still missed 2 😀

Your story does not seem to be as simple as you told it. I doubt condensation could have caused this. I have been in plenty of sub freezing taxi cabs in Thailand and then step out into hot and humid streets I can see and feel condensations all over my gear.

And for that reason I strongly believe something was wrong with my m8 and it should have been repaired under waranty.

Don't get me wrong, my loss is minimal due to the insurance. I'm simply pissed of by Leica's behavior. I was in contact with a shopowner yesterday and he said to me that this wasn;t a case alone. He expirienced more cases where waranty would have been applicable where Leica found an excuse not to replace the camera...

 

[gavinlg]

Either way, I think it's really pathetic that a 5K digital camera of German build - supposed to be a top shelf product isn't sealed in any way.

The canon 5d is the same, however I'd say it's less susceptible to moisture due to being an SLR. Plus is literally under half the price.

 

[gb hill]

Condensation is certain death to electronic components. I would much rather have rain dampen my gear than condensation. Condensation is a result of humidity and you can't see it happening on the inside. It will eat a circuit board in a hartbeat. BTW Apple Imac's have had bad problems with condensation. Don't belive me? google condensation & Imac and spend the next few hours reading the horror stories.

 

[gnarayan]

Wouldn't try that with a nikon!

oh it gets better -
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/01/how-weather-proof-is-e-3.html
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=24206724

I really wish they'd weather seal some of their smaller models as well because much as I liked the E3 it was too large for my taste.

 

[ace1400]

Water Damage - Universal Excuse

Water Damage - Universal Excuse

Unfortunately many companies are using the "water damage" excuse because consumers really can't disprove it. What is more, they are now many times taking active steps to preemptively void warranties in this way.

My mother's ThinkPad laptop died on her, and I looked at it for her, taking it apart as shown on the IBM (now Lenovo) web site, taking the keyboard out etc. None of the things they suggested fixed it, so I had her send it in, as it was under warranty. They called back a week later and told her that liquid had been spilled in the computer, hence the warranty was void and it would be about $1000 to fix the $1000 laptop.

Anyway, I made it very clear to them that I had seen the inside of the computer - there was no water damage or any evidence of anything ever being spilled on it. They then told us that they have an indicator built into the computer (some chemical thing evidently) that tells them that it has been exposed to moisture.

Obviously brilliant, because any machine that has been through a summer in the midwest has been exposured to enough humidity to cause the indicator read "moisture" and void the warranty, even though it was through no fault of the consumer and did not in any way contribute to the failure of the device.

Eventually the laptop was fixed, but the whole experience does leave a bad taste in one's mouth.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

correct, it proved to be 2810 ex tax (19%)

and will post it every where I can...Actually the leica forum is the only one which was ofcourse not completely sympathatic...what do you expect in the house of the lion

But even there there is sympathy

And even there they are suprised Leica did not respond as could be expected. Other M8's are treated far worse than mine and survived so the conclusion is justified that mine had a problem.

a 4K pro camera, intened for street (read outdoor) use, should be able to withstand this. This was not severe conditions. On dpreview there is an interview with Leica representatives that state that Leica has high-quality product that can deal with bad conditions.

I had a cynical laugh...

Why don't you try buying an Audi Quattro, hook a camper to it, and try to drive it up a rugged, dry mountain. When your transmission breaks, don't forget to act all surprised and shocked at the repair estimate.

Now that we've all suspended belief, I wonder what will happen if I jam a bagel in the toaster, turn it on, and try to pry it out with a silver knife. I'll remember to get my hands wet. Other people have used toasters with frozen waffles, so why can't I fiddle with it?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

About 2 years ago a waitress poured about half a cup of hot coffee into/over my Treo. Miraculously , after a few days, it worked flawlessy. It is not clear to me why electronics of a camera should be that much more sensitive than those of smartphones.

About four years ago my cat fell from a third floor balcony when he stepped onto a hanging pot. He survived. If my cat survived, I can't understand why a bulldog should be more sensitive to gravity than my cat.

 

[tmfabian]

About four years ago my cat fell from a third floor balcony when he stepped onto a hanging pot. He survived. If my cat survived, I can't understand why a bulldog should be more sensitive to gravity than my cat.

holy mackerel you're on point today Gabriel... excellent work. 🙂

 

[retow]

About four years ago my cat fell from a third floor balcony when he stepped onto a hanging pot. He survived. If my cat survived, I can't understand why a bulldog should be more sensitive to gravity than my cat.

Any proof that the bulldog would not survive😛

 

[RuedigerMerz]

reinierv,

Who from Leica told you that it is not covered under warranty and that it costs 3340 Euro? Did you receive a written quote?

Thanks,

Rudy

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Any proof that the bulldog would not survive😛

You can try your own experiments, if you wish. But that would be animal cruelty, as some dim-witted people have proved.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

holy mackerel you're on point today Gabriel... excellent work. 🙂

Sometimes I have the time :angel: 😱 😉

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

The cat was given, or evolved, physiological traits that allow it to survive such an incident!

I know. But many people can't understand that a tool was made with different specs and uses in mind. They're also the same that would complain about the inability of scissors to cut through glass. Or that duct tape couldn't possibly be any worse than a band-aid to cover a burst blister.

They call us "elitists" with medical degrees if we point out how misguided those beliefs are. 😎

 

[ThatOneGuy]

I can't believe that there are people who are actually defending Leica here. Assuming this story is true, which I have no reason to doubt, this is absolutely ridiculous. Leica touts the M8 as a serious photojournalists' camera and as an equal to the film Ms. What kind of photojournalist will never end up shooting in a rain storm, much less a little humidity? As for the people commenting about how vulnerable electronics are to moisture, why can other camera manufacturers produce weather sealed bodies for a third the price? Ok, the M8 is more expensive because it's hand made, but that should make it *higher* quality not lower. "Hand made" should be a mark of good craftsmanship, not an excuse for a substandard product.

This isn't a matter of using the wrong tool for the job, it's a matter of the tool not being up to the job it's being sold to do. Of course I can understand people fervently defending a camera that they spent a ludicrous amount of money on regardless of how big of a failure it might be, that's just human nature.

 

[gavinlg]

It should be weathersealed. I make no excuse for thinking that. It's what.... a few dollars in r&d and a couple of cents for some rubber gaskets that can be popped in when assembling?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

... but I'm not about to drown my camera and send it to them to make my point!

LOL. I think we'd be surprised at the number of people who'd do just that. Or would we?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I can't believe that there are people who are actually defending Leica here.

I'm not "defending" Leica. I hope you don't think that when people get shot in the movies is truly what is happening to them. If so, I can't help you nor begin to explain where the point of my posts are (were).

My cat also sometimes thinks that when I whistle there's a bird in the house.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

it proved that some condensation was present on the camera and the camera was dead. I tried to revive it by drying it in the sun the next few days, but it remained dead.

This was not "rain pouring on the camera". Something happened inside that backpack, and very likely moisture saturation got mixed with something else inside that bag, which caused undue corrosion. Corrosion doesn't immediately happen in less than half a day by "rainwater alone"; there must be a catalyst. Oxidizing catalysts are...if you don't mind the redundancy...corrosive.

Without knowing the specific facts, we can only reach biased conclusions.

In my experience, this sort of thing doesn't happen due to moisture alone. The must have been something else in that environment. I'm thinking salt or some edible acid was involved in all of this, not a simple case of "shooting in a rain storm, much less a little humidity".