Dual Range Summicron Questions

v3cron

Well-known
Local time
3:18 AM
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
337
Location
east
1. Whay are they so inexpensive? Just the age?

2. Do the "eyes" work on any third party cameras, particularly CV?

3. How would you characterize the "look" of this lens?

Thanks in advance.
 
cbphoto said:
1. Whay are they so inexpensive? Just the age?

2. Do the "eyes" work on any third party cameras, particularly CV?

3. How would you characterize the "look" of this lens?

Thanks in advance.


1. Is $350-400 inexpensive? Consider that most of them are 40-50 years old and need a good CLA.
2. No. Only the DR has the featherplate that the eyes connect to, and even if you handheld the eyes the focus cams of other lenses are not calibrated to the magnification change.
3. Amazing bokeh, nice and sharp if the glass is clean, not overly contrasty and definitely not under contrasty.
 
Thanks. So if not using a genuine M body, it probably makes more sense to get a regular rigid 50mm/f2 (they seem to be a little cheaper)? Is that roughly the same quality?

Sorry for the beginner questions...
 
Most need a good CLA. I bought a rigid Summicron recently (the same lens as the DR but some will differ on that) and the seller was honest about the fact that it had haze in the internal elements. So off it went to DAG and the CLA cost $120. Figure an extra $100 onto the price. Even if one was claimed to be optically perfect I would send it off for a CLA.
 
adep said:
The eyes are only used to focus closer than about a meter, so unless you want that, the DR could still be an option for you.

the question then becomes, which is a better performer at a $400 price point - the dr, or a cv 50mm/1.5?

or something else?
 
Last edited:
the Rigid and the DR are the same optical formula

I agree that the Rigid has phenomenal bokeh (check out Rich Silfver's gallery, he shoots with a Rigid). I don't use my M system for close-focus/macro stuff (have a Nikon SLR for that), so I opted for the Rigid over the DR.

Regarding better, what do you mean by "better"? I say this in the most friendly manner, so don't take it the wrong way, but only you can answer these "better" or "worse" questions. Your photos will not suffer from using either lenses.
 
cbphoto said:
the question then becomes, which is a better performer at a $400 price point - the dr, or a cv 50mm/1.5?

or something else?

To be honest, I think the real question is whether you need 1.5. Answer that and you answer your choice. If you don't, then the 50/crons (any version) will be more lens than any photographer will need. 🙂
 
Better?

Better?

You have to look past "better" or "worse" and start looking at the individual characteristics of a lens. If someone says that len A is "better" than lens B, that is his opinion. He may have his reasons-- eg. A does deliver higher resolution than B, and resolution is top priority for him-- but if his criteria does not match yours, then his opinion isn't that useful.

cbphoto said:
the question then becomes, which is a better performer at a $400 price point - the dr, or a cv 50mm/1.5?

or something else?
 
waileong said:
You have to look past "better" or "worse" and start looking at the individual characteristics of a lens. If someone says that len A is "better" than lens B, that is his opinion. He may have his reasons-- eg. A does deliver higher resolution than B, and resolution is top priority for him-- but if his criteria does not match yours, then his opinion isn't that useful.

better = contrasty and sharp across more apertures, from center to edge. say i need to shoot wide open (ignoring the max aperture difference for the moment). which will provide more snap?
 
peter_n said:
Does the DR have the focusing knob and the infinity lock that the rigid has?

Nope....although the focussing is quite easy. I imagine the fact the the focussing ring 'pulls-out' to engage and dis-engage the close focus range would make a focus lock tricky.
 
"Better"

"Better"

cbphoto said:
better = contrasty and sharp across more apertures, from center to edge. say i need to shoot wide open (ignoring the max aperture difference for the moment). which will provide more snap?

That is certainly helpful, although that is what makes a lens "better" for you. Not necessarily "better" as an absolute yardstick.

It's pretty obvious that the CV 1.5 is likely to be a "better" lens by your definition. For a start, it will be closed down one stop at F2, compared to wide open with the DR. For another, it incorporates aspherical elements and is 40 years younger technology, which means it has the benefit of the latest optical knowledge and design expertise.

However, I own the DR 50, and I once owned the CV 50/1.5. I sold the CV and kept the DR 50. Why? Because it wasn't "better" for me.

While the CV 50/1.5 might be better in terms of resolution and contrast, in terms of flare control, bokeh, contrast, color rendition, etc. I think the Summicron was the better lens, esp. for portraits.

The CV was also much bigger (52 mm instead of 39 mm filters), heavier and blocked more of the viewfinder. Build quality was much lower, it felt cheap, and the lens hood was inconvenient, had to be screwed on over the filter, and it could not be reversed for storage.

To me, the essence of M photography is to be compact and unobtrusive, to use as light and as small a lens as possible for the job at hand. I felt the CV 50/1.5 did not meet these criteria as well as the DR 50.

For these reasons, I sold the CV 50/1.5.

YMMV.

If possible, one should buy lenses on the basis of matching the characteristics of the lens to intended use (incl. how large you intend to print, what type of film you want to use) rather than through Photodo ratings or MTF graphs, or even others' opinions of which lens is better vis a vis another lens.

Choice of lens should be dictated by (a) what you want to shoot (models? landscapes? test charts?); (b) what you value in your pictures (high contrast, low contrast, nice bokeh, etc); (c) how well each lens meets your needs.

A lens is not "better" than another lens just because it has higher resolution, greater contrast, etc. Frankly, the new lenses from Leica outperform the older lenses in almost all quantitative aspects. I know because I have a 90/2.0 AA which I have compared to my 90/2.8 TE. However, the former is big and heavy and the latter is light and compact, so they serve two different purposes.


The former is used for landscapes, portraits of gorgeous models, etc. while the latter is used for travel, street photography, etc. when weight and the need to be discreet are more important than biting sharp resolution.

Thus I would say the 90 TE is better for travel and street photography while the 90 AA is better for model shoots and landscapes, esp. on slide film.

Wai Leong
===
 
Last edited:
Silva Lining said:
Nope....although the focussing is quite easy. I imagine the fact the the focussing ring 'pulls-out' to engage and dis-engage the close focus range would make a focus lock tricky.
Thanks for the response. I had no idea that the focusing ring moved back and forth along the barrel. Does it move easily or is there a detent of some kind?
 
Last edited:
peter_n said:
Thanks for the response. I had no idea that the focusing ring moved back and forth along the barrel. Does it move easily or is there a detent of some kind?

There is a definate stop, you have to pull the ring over the stop, put the Eyes on to put it into CU range. I have always loved this lens, but now, coming back from digital, I am leaning towards the 40mm as a normal lens.(I will still keep this lens though)
 
waileong said:
Choice of lens should be dictated by (a) what you want to shoot (models? landscapes? test charts?); (b) what you value in your pictures (high contrast, low contrast, nice bokeh, etc); (c) how well each lens meets your needs.

A lens is not "better" than another lens just because it has higher resolution, greater contrast, etc. Frankly, the new lenses from Leica outperform the older lenses in almost all quantitative aspects.

i'm not a beginner, and i certainly know that sharper lenses don't take better pictures automatically. in fact, about half of my fashion portfolio is scanned polaroids! 😉

my problem is that are a bazillion different 50mm lenses available for the m-mount, and i want to get an overview of the qualitative differences. your post actually helped quite a bit. everyone seems to love the DR, but few can express why in words. the price is very attractive, so it looks like a good starting point.
 
You may be able to search the gallery by lens so maybe you could take a look at the rigid & DR shots yourself. There is a photo site that does this but I don't have the link here (am on the road).
 
Back
Top Bottom