Fuji X100 alternatives?

Good that you got that out of your system. On a side note, I found your post funnier when it just said "retro styling" five times before you started editing it.



I don't care much what you personally are drooling over and why. (Interesting, however, how sometimes people have to insist they're part of a collective when stating their opinion.)

Regarding the X100, well there are the discussions about what bag to go with it, which strap to buy, whether they will make it in black and so on. You could try and find functional explanations for this kind of discussion, but it does become a bit of a stretch rather soon. I mean, seriously, "best bag"? The best bag is a pocket, what else do people buy small cameras for??

So I do think a lot of the drooling over the X100 actually has to do with how its styling fits current fashion trends for consumer items. Retro styling is hip and cool, for some items prices have gone through the roof. (My 1960s rotary-dial telephone that was made by the millions and used to be a junkyard item is now worth $80 to some people.) Hard to explain that by anything else than by "retro" being a fashion statement. When using my Leica in the street, I regularly get asked about it by people who basically don't care about photography at all. They couldn't care less about shutter speed and aperture dials and wouldn't know what to do with them, they just think it's cool.

So I do think that "retro" is a strong selling point for cameras, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. That doesn't preclude other people such as you liking them for functional reasons - but this in turn doesn't make it wrong, after all the world doesn't revolve around you either, whether you agree with it or not.

You're so wrong about current camera trends... Just look at the consumer point and shoot market - there have never been more slow 28-600mm zoom/menu driven/tiny sensor point and shoots available from so many companies. A fixed lens $1200 compact without mode dials or movie buttons is an oddity in the market, and surely aimed squarely toward advanced photographers. Even the marketing on the website blatantly mentions it being a professional camera.

I don't understand why you're so insistent on lumping the essence of the x100 into it being a retro fashion statement. Are you so obsessed with others image and perception of yourself that you cannot look past the cameras aesthetics in fear of being labelled a shallow trend follower?

Additionally can confidently say that the vast majority of RFFers who are anticipating the x100 are doing so mainly because of it's camera attributes (like ergonomics and IQ and size), rather than it's aesthetic attributes, and that's why I state my opinion as though I am part of a collective. Maybe your view would be more widely shared on some sort of sociology forum, by the non-photographers.
 
I know - after all you can't really escape it 🙂

However, I think that asking, for example, whether one should buy a black or chrome lens to go with a chrome body etc. is essentially a fashion question, too; maybe this is the form fashion discussions take on a gear-centric hobbyist forum such as this :angel:

And asking bag questions about a camera that isn't even on the market yet (and that fits in a pocket) really doesn't seem practically or ergonomically motivated at all...

You will find that professional race drivers - ie. in formula 1 will custom paint and decorate their helmets so that they're aesthetically pleasing to them, and to suit their style. Doesn't mean they're primarily fashion orientated and a driver second. Photographers are no different. Just because someone prefers a lens color or wants to know what bag will fit the camera does not make that the primary concern over the camera itself. If it was, they would be asking "what camera can I get in this bag, or what lens can I get in this color."
 
Maybe your view would be more widely shared on some sort of sociology forum, by the non-photographers.

You're wrong; at least I share rxmd's opinion. This is the perfect forum to talk about cameras as fashion accessories. Check out the most viewed thread ("Let's see your Leica M"), or threads on bags, camera color, 250 US Luigi cases, and other accessories. GAS and equipment trading can be viewed like this as well, buy a new dress after using the old one for a couple of months and becoming bored with it. Note that I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of that.

And finally, the positive response to the X100 is until now completely based on hear-say. Until very recently there was nothing but camera pictures (not pictures taken by the camera) that people built their opinion on.

The proof will be in the pudding: let's see how quickly X100s will show up in the classifieds.

Roland.
 
I think the thing that will tell the tale is how many photos are shot with X100's versus clunky DSLRS among serious photographers. Fashion doesn't translate into actual use, generally. SLR's became the camera to own back in the 1980's. But they were rarely used, as can be seen in the mint SLR's from that era that are available on eBay.
 
You're wrong; at least I share rxmd's opinion. This is the perfect forum to talk about cameras as fashion accessories. Check out the most viewed thread ("Let's see your Leica M"), or threads on bags, camera color, 250 US Luigi cases, and other accessories. GAS and equipment trading can be viewed like this as well, buy a new dress after using the old one for a couple of months and becoming bored with it. Note that I'm not saying there is anything wrong with any of that.

And finally, the positive response to the X100 is until now completely based on hear-say. Until very recently there was nothing but camera pictures (not pictures taken by the camera) that people built their opinion on.

The proof will be in the pudding: let's see how quickly X100s will show up in the classifieds.

Roland.

You misunderstand me - I don't disagree that the aesthetics of cameras and accessories is important to photographers, and RFFers - I'd take a nice looking camera over a functionally identical ugly camera anyway and so would everyone else, but in no way is it the PRIMARY concern for most users, and in no way is it the PRIMARY reason for the x100's popularity/hype.

If aesthetics/retro trends were the primary concern of RFF, this camera would be featured on here far more often:
pentax-optio-i-10.jpeg

So far, I haven't seen any mention to it, even though it is quite obviously a direct throwback to the 110 film pentax SLRs. The reason why no one here cares is because as a camera it's crap. Small sensor, slow zoom lens, no external controls, plastic etc etc.

If RXMD were correct that the x100 is popular due primarily to it's worth as a trendy fashion symbol, that little digital pentax 110 should theoretically be just as popular.
 
I think what you are not understanding is the return to not only knobs, but to a dedicated shutter speed dial (not a mode dial), a dedicated aperture ring, a manual focus ring, etc.

You will never understand the appeal of this, if you think DSLRs and the G series are designed great.

The Canon G12, S90 and S95 compacts all have a dial or ring on the front of the camera that can be dedicated to aperture or iso control.
 
You're so wrong about current camera trends... Just look at the consumer point and shoot market - there have never been more slow 28-600mm zoom/menu driven/tiny sensor point and shoots available from so many companies. A fixed lens $1200 compact without mode dials or movie buttons is an oddity in the market, and surely aimed squarely toward advanced photographers. Even the marketing on the website blatantly mentions it being a professional camera. [...] Maybe your view would be more widely shared on some sort of sociology forum, by the non-photographers.

Leica markets the M line as being aimed at professionals, too. How large do you think the percentage of actual professionals among M users is? I'd be surprised if it was 20%. Do you think Leica doesn't know that? This is how marketing works for many high-end amateur products.

However I'll go into a bit more detail just so that you can understand that I'm not attacking you, nor the X100, just describing a general concept how "retro" marketing works; and then you can decide whether you want to be angry with me, or call me deluded, or what not. (I don't really care if my view is widely shared or not; and I use the cameras I like and that get the job done, without much concern for images and perceptions; and I don't need to hang around in sociology forums, I get enough of that in my day job, and I don't engage in this kind of discussion on RFF all that often either.)

Your description of the camera market actually underlines my point, rather than disproving it. A lot of the marketing for high-end products works by distinction. A high-end product needs to be clearly distinguishable from a mass product. This has been marketing 101 for at least a decade. Remember Apple's slogan "Think Different"? From a marketing point of view, what that slogan aims to communicate to the customer is that "you know it's worth spending the extra $$$ on an Apple, because you know and everyone'll see that it's not a Dell."

Distinction is so powerful and well-established as a marketing concept because most people want to feel individual. By your example, professional Formula I racing drivers put designs on their helmets, and no, that doesn't make them fashion oriented. However, a much larger number of non-professional drivers put racing stripes on their cars, too. And those are fashion-oriented. They do it because they like it, and because it makes them feel a little bit like a Formula I driver, and because it makes their particular VW Golf car look different from all other VW Golfs. Photographers are no different. The question what strap goes with a chrome M3 is like the question what stripe goes with a chrome Corvette.

So, in a camera market that's, as you rightly say, full of plasticky $200 compacts with small sensors and dozens of buttons, a metal $1200 large-sensor camera with dials makes a powerful marketing statement precisely because it is so different. You, and me, and the RFF crowd know about aperture and shutter speed dials; for us, the statement is "here, we know that you understand these things, and we give you what you've been waiting for". However, you don't really have to understand apertures and shutter speeds to be susceptible to this kind of marketing. For what I think is the majority of the potential buyer base the statement is different and much more general, and it's conveyed precisely by what the original poster called "retro styling". The essence of marketing products as "retro" is that it communicates quality, value and authenticity. Whether the product marketed such actually is better is besides the point; it often will be (after all you usually do all this marketing effort for high-end products), and in the case of the X100 I'm pretty sure it is. However, as you know, that's not the point of marketing.

In a world where people are overwhelmed with junk, where they are skeptic about the future, and where the trust in products is largely gone, it's a common trend that quality, simplicity, authenticity, essence and value are typically associated with the past. From a marketing point of view, this means that by associating a product with the past, you can communicate these values, along with communicating distinction. So, in the case of the (according to the OP) "retro-styled" X100, I think the message that Fuji wants to send to the general public is "you know that all the low-end cameras on the market are plasticky junk. Here's something different for you, if you can afford it. Built like they used to build them. Just look at it - you, and everybody else, will see immediately just how different it is." This has a strong undercurrent of distinguishing oneself and of making a fashion statement (but as a message, nevertheless it is perfectly legitimate).
 
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RXMD - Okay, that was very well explained - I agree with and see where you're coming from with most of the things you say, its become clear to me that we're thinking similar things but perceiving them differently. You're seeing it as somewhat of a marketing venture for fujifilm to sell more, I'm seeing it as getting what I want in a camera.

I'll try and leave it here so that I don't take this thread any more off course!
 
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