t0fu
Newbie
hello gents,
I am one of a long list to folks considering the transition from Canon DSLR to RF. Photography isn't my primary source of income, or any income at all for that matter, but i get a lot of compliments on my work and an invitation every now and then to do a project. I've never used a rangefinder, don't have any friends that can let me try one out, and renting one is about a 400$ drama. I've been lurking on the forums for a month straight doing research into the m8 vs m9 and i'm at the point where i need to make a decision.
So my current setup is 5d mark 2 + 35mm f1.2L + 50mm 1.4 and thats it, about 95% of the time I shoot with the 35mm only. I absolutely hate being tethered to a heavy backpack full of lenses and equipment every time i travel, and i just want something simple that can get the job done. The quality of the images I see from the digital M sold me without question.
Probably the main question is related to my photo work in general, it can be found at http://www.badtofu.com . Is it safe to say that continuing to do this style of product and fashion is easily doable with a rangefinder?
As for my ability to deal with manual only shooting, i previously shot for about 6 months with an e-p1 with voigtlander lenses, and i do a lot of hand held manual focused shots with my 5d, so it doesn't bother me one bit.
All that being said, I'm trying to decide between 2 options:
1) find a m8 pick up a 35 + 28mm to try an mimic my current setup. this option allows me to actually keep my 5d setup and have a travel setup to take with me. but the question really is, if i'm just going to mimic my setup, why have it?
2) go all in and m9 + 35mm save for a 50mm later. of course this is expensive. around 8000ish with a secondhand m9 body.
I'm sorry for the long post, scatter brained structure, and horrible grammar, but I've been wracking my brain about this all week and wanted to get other people's opinions.
thanks
I am one of a long list to folks considering the transition from Canon DSLR to RF. Photography isn't my primary source of income, or any income at all for that matter, but i get a lot of compliments on my work and an invitation every now and then to do a project. I've never used a rangefinder, don't have any friends that can let me try one out, and renting one is about a 400$ drama. I've been lurking on the forums for a month straight doing research into the m8 vs m9 and i'm at the point where i need to make a decision.
So my current setup is 5d mark 2 + 35mm f1.2L + 50mm 1.4 and thats it, about 95% of the time I shoot with the 35mm only. I absolutely hate being tethered to a heavy backpack full of lenses and equipment every time i travel, and i just want something simple that can get the job done. The quality of the images I see from the digital M sold me without question.
Probably the main question is related to my photo work in general, it can be found at http://www.badtofu.com . Is it safe to say that continuing to do this style of product and fashion is easily doable with a rangefinder?
As for my ability to deal with manual only shooting, i previously shot for about 6 months with an e-p1 with voigtlander lenses, and i do a lot of hand held manual focused shots with my 5d, so it doesn't bother me one bit.
All that being said, I'm trying to decide between 2 options:
1) find a m8 pick up a 35 + 28mm to try an mimic my current setup. this option allows me to actually keep my 5d setup and have a travel setup to take with me. but the question really is, if i'm just going to mimic my setup, why have it?
2) go all in and m9 + 35mm save for a 50mm later. of course this is expensive. around 8000ish with a secondhand m9 body.
I'm sorry for the long post, scatter brained structure, and horrible grammar, but I've been wracking my brain about this all week and wanted to get other people's opinions.
thanks
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Eric,
I hesitate to discourage anyone from buying an M, but my suspicion is that you won't get the precision of framing you need, especially with 35m close up. You may not even be able to get close enough: remember, RFF lenses are only coupled down to about 65cm/2 feet anyway. Or of course you may find the imprecision of RF framing to be what you like.
If you do decide you want one, and image quality is your thing, then the M9 is the easy winner. M8 owners who've never used an M9 may disagree, but I have both M8 and M9, and the M9 is simply better. You don't see it in every shot, because a lot depends on the subject, but when you do, it's crystal clear.
Cheers,
R.
I hesitate to discourage anyone from buying an M, but my suspicion is that you won't get the precision of framing you need, especially with 35m close up. You may not even be able to get close enough: remember, RFF lenses are only coupled down to about 65cm/2 feet anyway. Or of course you may find the imprecision of RF framing to be what you like.
If you do decide you want one, and image quality is your thing, then the M9 is the easy winner. M8 owners who've never used an M9 may disagree, but I have both M8 and M9, and the M9 is simply better. You don't see it in every shot, because a lot depends on the subject, but when you do, it's crystal clear.
Cheers,
R.
P
Peter S
Guest
Tofu, I used to have a 5D and now have a M9. To be very honest the difference in portability is not a big deal if you stick to one prime lense. With a M9 you also have to carry extra batteries/charger etc etc. I considered a M8, but did not like to deal with IR filters etc. Why not stick to what is working for you ?
Yes the M9 is maller than your 5D, and yes the lenses are smaller and better, but the difference might not be big enough to justify such a big expenditure.
I actually am hoping that Panasonic will release a pro version of their 43 camera's later this year and also am curious about Leica's compact (although we won't see that one before late 2013 I think).
Yes the M9 is maller than your 5D, and yes the lenses are smaller and better, but the difference might not be big enough to justify such a big expenditure.
I actually am hoping that Panasonic will release a pro version of their 43 camera's later this year and also am curious about Leica's compact (although we won't see that one before late 2013 I think).
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jarski
Veteran
M8 can still be bought a stop gap, while wait M9 prices to become reasonable, which can take still years if no competition arise. many of these cameras were originally bought and babied, can still be found with shutter clicks under 5k, and like-new condition. (mine is somewhere close to 40k, am not hurrying to sell it 
)
+1 what Roger said about close focus and your product photography. M-lenses dont focus very close.
if Canon size&weight are the biggest issues, why not consider also rumored NEX7 and Ricoh's M-module ?
)+1 what Roger said about close focus and your product photography. M-lenses dont focus very close.
if Canon size&weight are the biggest issues, why not consider also rumored NEX7 and Ricoh's M-module ?
thegman
Veteran
I think before selling up and moving to a range finder, maybe consider renting an M8 or M9 for a day, or even just a couple of hours, to see what you think.
Yhbv24
Member
I don't really understand. You have only two lenses, but hate being tethered to a backpack full of lenses? What isn't simple about a 5D, and why can't it get the job done? The M9's image quality is indistinguishable from a 5D - both are superb.
Also, I'm assuming by 35mm f/1.2L you mean the 50mm f/1.2L and 35mm f/1.4L. If those are too heavy, why not sell them and go for the 35mm f/2.0 and the 50mm f/1.4?
Also, I'm assuming by 35mm f/1.2L you mean the 50mm f/1.2L and 35mm f/1.4L. If those are too heavy, why not sell them and go for the 35mm f/2.0 and the 50mm f/1.4?
delft
Established
Hello Eric,
You could try an analog rangefinder just to get the feel of using one. Either a cheap fixed-lens RF, or a Leica M that you can sell afterwards without much loss (?).
A rangefinder will probably not suit your current shooting style, but it might give you new ideas.
Happy shooting,
Dirk
You could try an analog rangefinder just to get the feel of using one. Either a cheap fixed-lens RF, or a Leica M that you can sell afterwards without much loss (?).
A rangefinder will probably not suit your current shooting style, but it might give you new ideas.
Happy shooting,
Dirk
Ben Z
Veteran
+1. That's the only reason I use an M9. I would not discourage you from getting one, but I would discourage you from selling out of Canon before you've had a while to use the Leica and are sure you don't need the Canon at all. I still have my 5D and no plans to get rid of it. There are times when I like a zoom, with IS, and AF. My longest lens is a Leitz 400mm, and I find it much more convenient adapted to the 5d than with a Visoflex on the M9.
taylan
Street Dog
I looked your website and photographs and i am sorry but you must forget using a RF. RF's won't be happy you.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I agree with other posters that an RF is not the type op camera to shoot the style of photographs you have on your site, although you might manage using the Macro-Elmar 90,but I have seen many posts from photographers moving over from DSLRs that the M8/9 revitalized their photography by forcing them into another style. It is up to you to decide whether you want to travel that road.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
The answer is no. Btw, that's not a negative answer.
An RF-style camera is less versatile than an SLR, but that's exactly one of its strength, because it's a tool that is more specialized for certain kinds of photography.
The styles that can benefit the most from an RF are those that are people oriented, for example: street, documentary, wedding/events, (some) travel.
If you get an RF camera, you're also opening up an opportunity to go beyond your current style, and that in itself cannot be a bad thing.
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ramosa
B&W
t0fu:
two thoughts come to mind. first, are you unhappy with your current setup? if you're not unhappy, i'd recommend that you stick with what you have. (you seem to be creating some lovely work already.) second, i'm not sure if size and mobility are critical factors for your style of work. (you'd need to decide that.) camera/equipment size is a huge factor for me, but i do a lot of street photography.
two thoughts come to mind. first, are you unhappy with your current setup? if you're not unhappy, i'd recommend that you stick with what you have. (you seem to be creating some lovely work already.) second, i'm not sure if size and mobility are critical factors for your style of work. (you'd need to decide that.) camera/equipment size is a huge factor for me, but i do a lot of street photography.
doolittle
Well-known
Some options to consider:
1. Keep your current set up and get film RF and one lens. Or a fixed lens rangefinder.
2. Decide if you can live with a more 'consumer' dSLR set up. Sell your current set up and get a cheaper body and less fast lenses (even a zoom!). Not sure how this will work out for you though, if you like shooting fast 35mm and will be changing to cropped lens body.
3. Get an M8 and a 28mm lens (~35mm FF) and use it as your travel and pocket camera. See how the focal length suits you before deciding if you need another lens. See how RF system suits you.
1. Keep your current set up and get film RF and one lens. Or a fixed lens rangefinder.
2. Decide if you can live with a more 'consumer' dSLR set up. Sell your current set up and get a cheaper body and less fast lenses (even a zoom!). Not sure how this will work out for you though, if you like shooting fast 35mm and will be changing to cropped lens body.
3. Get an M8 and a 28mm lens (~35mm FF) and use it as your travel and pocket camera. See how the focal length suits you before deciding if you need another lens. See how RF system suits you.
t0fu
Newbie
first i'd like to say thank you to everyone for the great feedback, a lot of what you guys are saying makes sense. i had no idea about the focus distance on the 35mm, where as the canon 35mm is like less then a foot.
maybe a rangefinder is not for me after all, I was hoping it would be my solution to a compact full frame setup. Maybe i should just bit the bullet and rent an m9, till then i guess i'll watch the rumor mill for possible alternative solutions or competition that might actually lower the price on an M (HA!)
maybe a rangefinder is not for me after all, I was hoping it would be my solution to a compact full frame setup. Maybe i should just bit the bullet and rent an m9, till then i guess i'll watch the rumor mill for possible alternative solutions or competition that might actually lower the price on an M (HA!)
BobYIL
Well-known
t0fu,
Keep your current setup but get a 45mm TS-E tilt/shift lens or try to rent it for a few days. Most of your subjects are near-plan however varying plane of focus. Through tilt & shift you will attain better control for depth as well as appropriate perspective. Study some studio photographs of similar objects and articles made by LF format with lens-plane movements... Try the suggested tilt/shift lens for a short period, I am sure you will note the benefits..
Keep your current setup but get a 45mm TS-E tilt/shift lens or try to rent it for a few days. Most of your subjects are near-plan however varying plane of focus. Through tilt & shift you will attain better control for depth as well as appropriate perspective. Study some studio photographs of similar objects and articles made by LF format with lens-plane movements... Try the suggested tilt/shift lens for a short period, I am sure you will note the benefits..
t0fu
Newbie
my last project i traveled to vancouver, i had to carry my bag full of equipment with me pretty much the entire day because i couldn't really trust to sit it anywhere. by the end of the event i was ready to be a tourist, but i had absolutely ZERO interest in dealing with my camera in the busy city tryin to shoot. i would have liked to have gotten in some filler/b-roll but having to deal with all of it turned me off and i actually went back to my hotel to leave my camera behind. i absolutely hated that.
-g-
Newbie
When are you in Vancouver again?
Haigh
Gary Haigh
I agree with the comment that said that a RF probably won't suit your style nor will it always produce such stylish and lovely images as you do. If it means much I use a Leica M4 with various lenses, a CV R4A and also a Nikon F100. It just depends what I am doing.
Jockos
Well-known
If you do get a M9, you could always get an EVIL like the NEX for cheap for the macros, and use the M-glass on that camera also.
tic
Established
I agree that you should probably keep your 5D, given your style of photography (great images by the way). If you want to see what images you could create with a rangefinder, why not get a used film Leica and a 35mm lens from eBay (or the ad section here), find a lab to develop and scan for you and use this setup on the side for six months. If you decide you don't like it just put it back on eBay.