kemal_mumcu
Well-known
I know there are "old" new M6s that come up for sale. I just meant current production from Leica. Leica did improve the M6 with the M7 and the MP and so the M6 is not the latest or best from Leica.
I'm only trying to point out that value is not necessarily something that one can work out on a calculator. I know that used Leicas are a better buy. I bought an M2 over 3 years ago and have never regretted that purchase. It was exactly what I needed. But I wanted an MP but did not have the money for it then nor now. I do not regret my M2 but if I ever get the chance to buy an MP I'll most likely go for it.
If the OP has the money and wants the MP then he should buy what he wants. Sure, it might be irrational in the calculator sense and sure he might make do with mediocre glass for a year or two but one needs to follow the leading of the heart sometimes. Even if it doesn't always make economic sense.
sazerac
Well-known
I bought a brand new MP (black paint version) in late 2004 with Leicavit and a 50/2 after selling off most of my other camera gear. I got the .85 because I wanted the closest thing to a brand new M3. It was a graduation present after completing my Masters degree. I have never regretted it.
Only in the last 9 months have I wondered about another lens. I have tried both the CV 35/2.5 & 35/1.7 and now the 35/1.2. All lenses have been great, but the 1.2 seems very interesting...
Only in the last 9 months have I wondered about another lens. I have tried both the CV 35/2.5 & 35/1.7 and now the 35/1.2. All lenses have been great, but the 1.2 seems very interesting...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Kemal,
I fear that you and I are as voices crying in the wilderness on this one.
A lot of people manage to persuade themselves that they'd rather have an M2 and $X000 than an MP -- especially if they haven't got the $X000. Few are as honest as you: yes, I'd like the MP, but I can't afford it.
I'd been using Leicas for a long time before I got my first new one. I'd been using them even longer before I got my second new one. You don't need frequent 'upgrades' after your first Leica, at least not with film (probably not from the M9, either).
But for me, it makes sense to buy the best you can afford, when you can afford it. I don't regret buying my M4-P, a dozen years after I started using Leicas and 7 years after my first, second-hand M3. Twenty years after the M4-P I got another new one, an MP...
EDIT: Not entirely in the wilderness: cf. Sazerac.
Cheers,
R.
sequitur
Newbie
I've dreamt and thought day and night about getting a Leica black paint MP...
The first time I came close to buying one, I decided on getting a used M7 instead. It will shoot faster (it does).
Then the next round of GAS came and I wanted to get a used MP as a second camera to my M7 (because I will be going traveling).
And I came close to buying one, but I decided on getting an M6 TTL 0.58x to fit my 28mm Elmarit instead. It also takes pictures.
I think it would be wiser to sink more money into good glass first, then as time goes by you may want to swap out the bodies.
Body prices depreciate. Lens prices appreciate (generally). And at the end of the day it's the good glass that gets the sharp pictures... though I don't deny that using an MP seems to give mana/mojo into taking emotionally nicer pictures. Ah heck that!
Edit: BTW, that said M6 arrived in the mail yesterday. Holding it in hand, I actually don't regret not buying the MP that I held in a used dealer's store a while back. It's immensely familiar to the M7 that I already own. YMMV.
The first time I came close to buying one, I decided on getting a used M7 instead. It will shoot faster (it does).
Then the next round of GAS came and I wanted to get a used MP as a second camera to my M7 (because I will be going traveling).
And I came close to buying one, but I decided on getting an M6 TTL 0.58x to fit my 28mm Elmarit instead. It also takes pictures.
I think it would be wiser to sink more money into good glass first, then as time goes by you may want to swap out the bodies.
Body prices depreciate. Lens prices appreciate (generally). And at the end of the day it's the good glass that gets the sharp pictures... though I don't deny that using an MP seems to give mana/mojo into taking emotionally nicer pictures. Ah heck that!
Edit: BTW, that said M6 arrived in the mail yesterday. Holding it in hand, I actually don't regret not buying the MP that I held in a used dealer's store a while back. It's immensely familiar to the M7 that I already own. YMMV.
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andredossantos
Well-known
OK, maybe some were not being "honest" as you said but I don't think you can write off a lot of the opinions here as simply coming from people who don't have the dough and thus are deluding themselves.
I suggested something other than an MP and I was being totally honest. I freely admit that I cannot afford an MP. However, if I DID have that kind of money I still would not buy an MP. I have many other items ahead of an MP on my wishlist, namely a whole load of top quality glass: Noctilux .95, a 75mm Summilux, a 35mm f1.4 ASPH, etc etc. As for Camera bodies: An M9, an M4, and probably even a minty M3 are ahead of the MP on my wishlist.
Anyway, I just don't agree that everyone who could afford an MP would buy one, all things being equal.
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SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
and a LOT of people are being very honest when they say they feel absolutely no need to buy/own an MP, even if they have/had the cash. an MP would add absolutely nothing to my 'shooting experience' or whatever this is about. if you gave me a brand spanking new MP today, I'd sell it tomorrow and invest the cash in other things photography- and travel-related. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this way.
sorry for the off-topic, buy whatever camera suits you, if you don't have to sell your soul to afford it.
daninjc
Well-known
I agree 100%. In all honesty I don't feel any need to upgrade (I use a M6), and I'm quite sure my shooting wouldn't change a bit with a MP. On the other hand, I would often feel worried carrying >4000$ gear hanging from my neck.
secksthoi
Established
Well I would of course buy within my means, so I guess I'm looking at the used market for an MP and plan to pair it with a Zeiss 35mm Biogon f/2. Reasons why I want the MP as my Leica M of choice is cuz it's definitely the M I've always wanted. It's something about the black paint that I love, the brassing is pure beauty.. I can't explain it. AND it's a full mechanical (modern) M with a meter. Sure the M6 does that too, but just the look and feel of an MP (visual, haven't held one 
) is something special.. I shoot a Hasselblad 500cm from time to time and every clank of that shutter is just magic so it must be the same with Leicas haha
) is something special.. I shoot a Hasselblad 500cm from time to time and every clank of that shutter is just magic so it must be the same with Leicas haha
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maddoc
... likes film again.
Not exactly ... The last full mechanical M was the M4-P, every model after (and also the M5) is a more or less complicated electronic - mechanic hybrid.
Except for the "MP classic".secksthoi
Established
Not exactly ... The last full mechanical M was the M4-P, every model after (and also the M5) is a more or less complicated electronic - mechanic hybrid.
lol..... I meant as in no need for a battery for it to work mechanical. Cmon work with me here
secksthoi
Established
Oh I get it, nevermind.. I saw my mistake earlier so I edited it, but I guess you didn't see where I annotated MODERN with a METER haha
EDIT: Wait what the hell.. I saw the time difference.. You guys respond fast!
EDIT: Wait what the hell.. I saw the time difference.. You guys respond fast!
maddoc
... likes film again.
huntjump
Well-known
daninjc
Well-known
After reading this, I agree that a M6 would never satisfy you as much as a black paint MP. I would still try to get a used one, and save as much as I can for good glass, travel etc.
It's something about the black paint that I love, the brassing is pure beauty.. I can't explain it. AND it's a full mechanical (modern) M with a meter. Sure the M6 does that too, but just the look and feel of an MP (visual, haven't held one
secksthoi
Established
WOW I totally wish I had the money right now........ = ='
Totally frustrating to be shopping for something and then not have the funds when you find a good deal. Look on the bright side, though: You have more time for further research and consideration about a sizable expense.
ashfaque
Learning
You guys are amazingly helpful and patient bunch. Thanks a lot for these advices. I'm sure they'll be very helpful for my future plans.
If I was buying now (, provided I had the money and time,) I'd get a heavily used and nicely working M6 and a 50 Summilux ASPH.
If I was buying now (, provided I had the money and time,) I'd get a heavily used and nicely working M6 and a 50 Summilux ASPH.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, I said "a lot" and not "all": I didn't even say 'a majority'. Nor would I suggest for a moment that "everyone who could afford an MP would buy one". So we are far less in disagreement than you might think. Even so, I'll stick by "a lot". It's not a very precise term, after all.
And, as the OP has said, the MP is the one he wants. At that point, everything else is second best, regardless of the rationality of "want".
Cheers,
R.
andredossantos
Well-known
Roger,
My message perhaps a bit more confrontational sounding than I meant it to be. Regardless, I think my definition of a "lot" is probably a bit "less" than yours
Also, Im in full agreement with you on the rationality aspect that comes into play.
Anyway! Cheers!
My message perhaps a bit more confrontational sounding than I meant it to be. Regardless, I think my definition of a "lot" is probably a bit "less" than yours
Also, Im in full agreement with you on the rationality aspect that comes into play.
Anyway! Cheers!
rogerzilla
Well-known
I'm surprised that one of the repair shops, or even Solms, hasn't yet come up with a TTL metering conversion for an M2 or M3. You'd need to get a shutter curtain with a silvered spot, but the electronics must be tiny these days (compared to when the M6 was designed) and it might not even be necessary to strip out the self timer to make room. Price the conversion at $750 and you'd sell bucketloads.