internet forums vs. creativity & improvement

[amateriat]

In my mind, the answer that formed to nearly all the questions is: it depends.

As signal-to-noise ratios go, RFf has a lot more signal than most any other photo-related site I've gotten involved with, which is why this is about the only site I bother dealing with anymore. Lots of information, many a good photo to look at, interesting stories/anecdotes, and, yes, sometimes a good joke or two. I spend a crazy amount of time on here, yes, but rarely do I consider it totally wasted.

And...I've spent a lot of time behind the viewfinder lately, as well. Right after finishing this post, I'm putting two new hard drives in my Mac so I can get to the crushing backlog of scans that I (and others!) have been waiting on for several weeks. Then, editing in PS, and a good amount of printing. WHile the scanning is going on, I'll help with Galfriend on dinner, re-check the scanning, then pause the scan-session to go over some photos with Galfriend for printing and sending out, then get back to scanning, then come back here for some more commotio...I mean communication.

If "virtual community" isn't considered too much an oxymoron, I'd say RFf comes pretty close to it for me. That isn't always neat, or pretty, but nothing that's truly worthwhile ever is, eh?


- Barrett

 

[back alley]

how come all the folks who criticize rff for being a gear site have not left any feedback on my pics at flickr?

do me a favour, help make me a better shooter.

joe

 

[Sparrow]

how come all the folks who criticize rff for being a gear site have not left any feedback on my pics at flickr?

do me a favour, help make me a better shooter.

joe

Try this, I'll get to important bit in a day or two

 

[ruben]

.......

There are a few creative minds here but the vast majority are gear freaks.

I love these kind of statements for the deeply and classical creative elitist minded ignorancy they reflect:

Creativity is everywhere, in the streets, in the hammer of the most simple shoe fixer, in the millions gravitation towards certain trends, in the life of every single human being on the planet, etc, etc, etc.

Whoever fails to understand it, and narrows it to "picture taking", has not the smallest clue about Art, creativity, or Photography nor the meaning of his own life.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[BillBingham2]

Joe,

I've got to dig up my flickr account password and I will leave some stuff. After a quick go through of six pages you have a number of very strong pictures. I have to figure out some exercises/approachs that might help but the first thing I would say is to try to take a stronger approach while editing your pictures.

Perhaps setting up some groups within Flickr and say these are the shots I'm really proud of, then here are some other ones that I like. The peppers on 5 and the hydrant on 6 really stood out to me as great shots. Some of what I see is that you have an eye for what's interesting but you do not always choose the most powerful perspective or lens. The woman with the dog in the front harness for example. A very funny shot but the perspective did not pull me into the picture. Perhaps a head on shot at the dog's face level with the 15. I'm not sure.

You hit the nail on the head a lot for good stuff so I know you are very close (at least IMHO). Perhaps what you need to do is look at every shot on the roll and think about what perspective, what lens, what lighting would have make it a better picture. What would have pulled you into the picture and kept your focus there. Remember this for next time. Perhaps saying for one week you are going to do nothing but one block. You find pictures on the block. Different times, different perspectives, work the block. Review all your shots at the end of each session. Write down the notes as to finding a better perspective and try them the next day. After you take the new and improved shot look at the same thing and see if you see another way while you are there. Cats, corners, stairs, lovers, trash, shoot it all and try new stuff. Get down on the ground, swing your LCD out and shoot from over head.

I got to do some more work (hours = money) so I will try to dig up my password and put some comments in.

You really do have some strong stuff, you are closer than I think you think!

B2 (;->

 

[shadowfox]

I don't think contributions to the collective creativity of the forum members is a reasonable criterion for judging the value of gear-related posts on RFF. Only art/creativity-related posts should be judged by that criterion.

I can certainly understand that those who don't need or wish to know anything more about their gear find such discussions useless and annoying, and would prefer that RFF not devote so much space to them. But that is not a reason, IMO, for mocking or denigrating those who are interested in such discussions. That sentiment really goes to the question of what is the purpose of RFF? Is it a forum for true artists and experts to hold forth and disburse their hard-won wisdom, or is it a forum for all photography enthusiasts -- of pictures as well as of gear -- to converse at their various levels of sophistication?

What a good way to reply. You sir, are a wordsmith.

 

[tbarker13]

I cannot see a single reason why gear talk would be bad for your development as a photographer.
Well, I can see one reason: You might have a problem if you choose to talk, rather than shoot, when presented with the opportunity do either.

For me, chatting/reading about gear is just one nice way to enjoy the hobby when I can't be out shooting.

 

[kermaier]

I cannot see a single reason why gear talk would be bad for your development as a photographer.
Well, I can see one reason: You might have a problem if you choose to talk, rather than shoot, when presented with the opportunity do either.

As Tuco said in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly : "When you have to shoot, shoot -- don't talk." 😉

::Ari

 

[Traut]

Why would someone think this was a gearcentriic site with recent threads like "What is the handsomest lens on my M"?

 

[tbarker13]

Why would someone think this was a gearcentriic site with recent threads like "What is the handsomest lens on my M"?

Just because someone puts some dessert on the table, that doesn't mean the entire meal lacked nutrition.

 

[amateriat]

As Tuco said in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly : "When you have to shoot, shoot -- don't talk." 😉

::Ari

That's what he told me. Always good advice. 😀

Me and EW a few years back. Among other things, he's a serious Leica guy.


- Barrett

 

[mfogiel]

I like this forum - perhaps the most no-nonsense one around, and I like to learn from others, but here, whatever we talk about, it is the image that counts eventually.
This is why I am probably appearing as overeager to post my photos in the comments I make, but I wish everybody did the same. For me, a photography forum, is uppermost about the photographs.
Here's my creative contribution, BTW this shot has been taken with the 28/2 Ultron bought here through the classifieds... :

 

[kermaier]

That's what he told me. Always good advice. 😀

Me and EW a few years back. Among other things, he's a serious Leica guy.


- Barrett

Awesome! That made my day, thank you.
::Ari

 

[emraphoto]

...It's been my observation that when someone decides to go beyond the hobbyist stage, they start to post less and less, or stop posting completely...

how would you know that if they stopped posting?

they could be dead from a heart attack for all you know.

to go from hobbyist stage to "not hobbyist" stage takes such a huge amount of work and time perhaps you have point.

i find myself often wishing there was more of a resource feel here for folks trying to make that leap. young and old alike. that being said i must admit i do have an incurable fascination with the machines themselves.

 

[ruben]

I like this forum - perhaps the most no-nonsense one around, and I like to learn from others, but here, whatever we talk about, it is the image that counts eventually.
This is why I am probably appearing as overeager to post my photos in the comments I make, but I wish everybody did the same. For me, a photography forum, is uppermost about the photographs.
Here's my creative contribution, BTW this shot has been taken with the 28/2 Ultron bought here through the classifieds... :

Dear mfogiel,

I am going to take great care in remaining politely, because you may be right. But would you be so kind to explain that abovequoted strange statement, saying that:

"whatever we talk about, it is the image that counts eventually. " I happen to fail to understand this ancestral axioma.

Thanks in advance,
Ruben

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I don't hang out here when I could otherwise be shooting. RFF is generally a break from work--a lot of the work I do is on a computer, so it's right there all the time. It definitely makes me want more gear, so that's not good. But it also gets me excited about trying new things, and that is good.

It's just nice to be able to nerd out with other people, that's all.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I've never had an artist complain about a lens that I either built or repaired for them.

And I've never had anyone complain about example photo's that I've posted in threads inquiring about gear.

I've been in "debates" about gear. Try to stay away from the Politics. Gear talk is usually not the problem, bellybutton gazing often starts it.

As far as the Internet is concerned, it paid the mortgage, bills, and for some nice cameras in the early 90s. Writing an entire IP stack in 200 lines of RISC assembly language code for a Network Interface Card that I designed, that was fun and paid well.

So I've had my fair share of Internet Discussions, starting in about 1980. It's funny to see what it's morphed into.

 

[Gumby]

"whatever we talk about, it is the image that counts eventually. " I happen to fail to understand this ancestral axioma.

mfogiel can certainly speak for him/herself, but I think there is an important point mad in that saying and I'd like to help you understand. Here's what I think is meant:

We can talk about gear all we want, buy and sell to our heart's delight, fondle and play with that gear... but if we don't actually use it to make images we are not photographers.

Does that help?

 

[David R Munson]

An interesting discussion. I'll throw in my two cents for the OP.

...a gear site somehow is a barrier to creative improvement...what you think about it?

I feel it depends on the end user and their relationship with their equipment vs their relationship with actually making images. What is one more concerned with? Technical knowledge is useful, and our cameras are tools and therefore rather important to the task at hand, but there is a limit to how much one can gain from talking about such things.

can being on the net too much really stifle our creativity?

I think it can, but one has to be online quite a bit for that to be an issue. More the issue may be talking/thinking about photography vs doing it. It's the sort of thing that can be talked about endlessly, so the danger lies in doing so endlessly rather than actually going out and making photographs.

does talking about gear with like minded folks deter us from using that same gear in a creative manner?

Not unless they're collectors.

does my rambling on about which lens to get next or sell next or why i am liking the drf experience so much really stop others from enjoying their photographic experiences?

Not remotely.

will using one lens and one camera help us to see better?

That probably depends more on where you are in your photographic journey than anything else. There's something to be said for that approach. There's also something to be said for tossing it straight out the window.

will taking a break from the few people on the planet that 'get it', it being the rf experience, somehow clear the mind of the foolishness that sometimes passes as intelligent conversation?

Yes. Also, stop watching TV, listening to the radio, and reading the newspaper if you're serious about clearing the mind.

will not seeing poor photographs being hailed as great, or hearing the 'experts' praise lenses that are old and passed their prime really impact anyone to the point that their photography will noticeably improve?

A photographer's ability to ignore may be as important as his ability to see. To that end, nuts to all the crap around the edges.

should we all just go out and photograph our part of the world, post on flickr and then go out and shoot some more?

Flickr naysayers aside, I say yes. Why the hell not? Shoot and shoot some more. That is how we progress. And if we can find a good way to share things along the way, all the better.

or is there hope for us that like to chat, be it electronically or not, with others whose eyes do not glaze over when the word rangefinder is spoken?

Of course there is hope. The photographic journey of humanity has only just begun. It's too early to be getting bored.