Kiev-4a shutter

[manfromh]

I discovered that when I change the shutter speed from slower to faster, then there will be a gap left in the shutter. Lets say, I change the speed from 1/50 to 1/125, then the curtains kind of pull themselves open (or the lower one pulls itself away from the other one). Everything seems to be fine with speeds 1/250 and higher.
It doesnt seem to happen when I change the speed to slower. So, can anyone give some tips about fixing it, or is it "off for CLA" day?

Matis

 

[Ash]

is this before, or after, you wind on?

 

[Ash]

yea i think you're doing something wrong on second thoughts. i just grabbed my 4a. I wind on, then adjust shutter speed. that way the curtains do their own thing out of the way.

i think you must be setting the speed before winding on (as they move back upwards as you wind on)

 

[manfromh]

is this before, or after, you wind on?

Its after. Im quite sure i havent changed the speeds before winding on. But im not sure about the previous owner.

 

[colyn]

Looks like you changed shutter speeds before cocking the shutter.
Cock the shutter then set to 1/250th and fire it several times then cock and try the slower speeds.

 

[manfromh]

Its a little better now, but not much. I can go from 50th to 250th by steps, but not directly. I may have changed the speeds without winding by accident. I wouldnt do it knowingly.

 

[Ash]

cycle through each speed. Fire, wind on, fire, wind on, move up to the next speed.

You'll need to go up to the fastest and down to the slowest a few times and hope that it will engage again properly.

 

[Hamster]

Is the hook behind the film rails latching onto the lower shutter blinds properly?

 

[colyn]

Is the hook behind the film rails latching onto the lower shutter blinds properly?

This hook holds the closing curtain not the opening curtain (lower shutter curtain) till it is released at the proper time depending on what shutter speed is set.

 

[colyn]

A closer look at your photo reveals your problem. The closing curtain lathe has detached from the closing curtain. You will need to have the curtains repaired or replaced.

I'm wrong....ignore the above..

The light reflections fooled me. Curtains are fine.

Back to my original thinking that you wound the shutter after cocking the shutter.

 

[colyn]

This hook holds the closing curtain not the opening curtain (lower shutter curtain) till it is released at the proper time depending on what shutter speed is set.

Twice in one day I'm wrong..I must be getting old

The hook does indeed hold the opening curtain.

 

[wlewisiii]

With all due respect, the Kiev/Contax shutter is not as fragile as the Leica shutter copied by the Feds & Zorkis. You can wind or change speeds at any time and it will not do anything to the shutter.

Look here: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-92.html for a starting point.

Then go here: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/ to learn much more about what might be wrong and hopefully how to fix it.

Good luck!

William

 

[Stu W]

Hamster has it right. The hook connects to the shutter release button. Sometimes it has to be bent to properly engage the tab on the curtain. Stu

 

[colyn]

With all due respect, the Kiev/Contax shutter is not as fragile as the Leica shutter copied by the Feds & Zorkis. You can wind or change speeds at any time and it will not do anything to the shutter.

Look here: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-92.html for a starting point.

I couldn't agree more. This is afterall a well proven design. Many of the issues people have with the Kiev is simply due to the need for a CLA.
These cameras may have sat unused for several years before being sold to the west and will need service which is what I did with mine before even shooting with it.

Then go here: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/ to learn much more about what might be wrong and hopefully how to fix it.

Good luck!

William

The Kiev Survival Site is a must have bookmark.
Even though it won't damage the shutter it is however a good idea to cock the shutter before changing speeds. Mainly because if the camera is in need of a CLA problems such as what the OP is experiencing can happen.


As a side note: Anybody who chooses to use a Kiev should learn some of the basics of repairing these cameras since most techs only do a simple CLA and ignore parts such as the film take-up clutch which causes frame spacing issues as reported many..

 

[ZeissFan]

The reason that the shutter is doing this is that the lower curtain is winding too far orginally.

The hook that catches the lower curtain also should prevent the lower curtain from rising past the hook. If the curtain moves past the hook, it won't catch when you change shutter speeds (lower speed to higher speed), because that lessens the tension on the shutter, lowering the tension on the lower drum.

The lower curtain then slides past the hook -- which leaves the gap in the shutter.

This can be corrected, but you'll need to do a bit of disassembly.

 

[manfromh]

I think I have an idea of whats going on inside the camera. Im gonna try the surgery tomorrow. Its also a good chance to practice my repairing skills. I feel kind of excited and optimistic about it.

 

[Spyderman]

Good luck. You'll need it 😀

 

[varjag]

manfromh, there might be relatively simple cure.

Take off the top casting, you will see a screw on the back retaining that latch hook/lever assembly. Screw it further in: the screw is actually eccentric and will press the hook down onto the curtains assuring more secure hold. It helped with my Contax that had similar problem.

 

[manfromh]

Thanks Varjag. I will try that first.

 

[manfromh]

okay, i opened up the camera. I didnt see whats wrong, the hook seemed to work properly. So after few hours, i started to put it back together. After i installed the wind knob, i thought i could try it out. Now, the gap problem seems to be gone for some reason. But, thers a small hook thingy (1 on picture) thats blocking the movement of the lower curtain. When i wind on, the curtain gets stuck behind it. It should be on the other side of a small thingy (2 on picture) on the curtain. I can just lift the edge of the curtain gently to slide it past it, but after i fire the shutter a few times, its in the wrong place again. Sorry if the text is confusing. I dont know the english words for some things.