Jamie123
Veteran
Wow, do you have to take yourself *that* seriously to join this thread?
The guy just posted some of his pictures (nice ones, I might add). He loves film, the message is simple.
Relax
It's just that this kind of shameless self promotion is very annoying. I'm sure he's one of those people who post the same few pictures (crappy ones, I might add) in every other thread because he's so damn proud of them. And of course he posts them because he expects to be complimented on them. Personally, I think they're sh*t but of course I shouldn't say this because it's considered rude.
ok, now I'll relax
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Sources?
(Not arguing; just haven't seen what I would regard as convincing news).
Cheers,
R.
Nescio
Well-known
So, I've read an entire thread about fearing fishermen fondling in a fools pond at a moonless night and suddenly someone starts trolling around. And I'm not amused, or should i say; NO FUN...?
Now, what really amuses me, is that most of us here seem to follow financial fashion fodder up to the umpteenth degree. That's fine with me, but I just wonder where that actually came from. I'm old enough to know how things were before Reagan & Thatcher came in and - hopefully - still young enough to see another change come.
And maybe, just maybe, there'll be some place left for the idealist entrepreneur (don't like the word hobbyist, really) in the near future to make that film that we supposedly want or need so badly.
Sorry, bmattock, no facts nor figures here, just my two drops of optimism (or common sense, everything changes, you know); much more fun than fearing the worst for sure.
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wgerrard
Veteran
If Kodak could sell all of the Tri-X it produces, or has stashed away, why in the world wouldn't they just sell it, rather than letting Freestyle rebadge it and sell it for less?
If I can sell 500 widgets for $5.00 each, what incentive do I have to sell 250 of them to you for $1.50?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
No he won't. He only care about banks. Getting him to help GM and Chrysler was like pulling teeth. The govt. eventually helped those industrial companies but they had to jump through hoops to get it. Kodak's an industrial company and the ruling class in this country thinks we can stay prosperous by pushing paper for a living while other countries actually produce useful things.
DerekF
Established
Bill,
As has already been pointed out, cash flow is the obvious answer to this. If this "experiment" is considered successful, Kodak might even expand this "program" to other films. Although they may make less profit, at the end of the day it's still pretty much win-win for Kodak. They sell Kodak-branded Tri-X at full price to those who insist on it (or who don't know about the Freestyle arrangement) while still capitalizing on all the cheapskates like myself.
bmattock
Veteran
Not everything. But some things.
Yes, it will. I'm prepared to accept your capitulation or to offer mine, as required.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
Economies of scale. The marginal cost of 250 extra widgets when you're making 500 anyway might be $0.50/widget. That's $1/widget profit.
Cheers,
R.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
About Kodak and Freestyle Arista Premium ... it probably also helps to keep the wheels turning when you have god knows how many kilometers of frozen Tri-X stock in a vault somewhere!
bmattock
Veteran
Which means you have excess capacity you can't sell through normal retail channels. That balance continues to dip as 'brand-name' demand drops, until you sell 500 cheap widgets and 250 retail, then 900 cheap and 10 brand-name, and then your cheap channel can't move any more cheap widgets and you have to stop - because the nature of your manufacturing doesn't scale well in a downward direction. Fixed costs such as physical plant and minimum labor necessary to keep the manufacturing belt moving at all mean there is a minimum break-even point, below which it no longer makes sense to produce any at all. Then you run a few really big last runs and turn off the lights. Ask AgfaPhoto.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
No it doesn't. Freestyle IS a normal retail channel.
Ask anyone involved in film manufacture and they'll tell you the same thing: they keep on working out ways to coat film faster and more cheaply, on substantially the same line. Why not run the line a bit longer and earn a bit more profit?
If you knew who coats what for whom, and (still more) who did so in the past, you might be surprised.
Cheers,
R.
aizan
Veteran
what really happened at agfa, anyway?
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Well, I just ordered 60 rolls of Tri-X from B & H. That ought to keep Kodak in business for a couple more hours. (You know, if we all did this, it might send them a message.)
bmattock
Veteran
Why, nothing happened! Ask anyone (on RFF). Agfa Gevaert spun off AgfaPhoto so that it would die because they saw the writing on the wall. But not if you talk to the True Believers (tm). If you ask them, AgfaPhoto went bankrupt because of evil capitalists, not because they weren't selling enough film to remain profitable. And in any case, someone will buy their assets and start AgfaPhoto back up again. And even if the old factories were knocked down and the manufacturing equipment hauled away to South Korea to make coated (non-photographic) film, they're still sure that a new deal will be announced ANY DAY NOW that will bring Agfa roaring back to life. And besides, AgfaPhoto is already back, they read it somewhere or other, even if they can't quite find the news location where it was stated, they heard it from a guy who heard it from another guy, but in any case, it doesn't matter, because if you don't think AgfaPhoto is coming back, you're just a HATER and you should not be allowed on RFF.
The truth is the company went bankrupt. The bits of it were sold off, and they had a lot of film in cold storage that is still being parceled out, but there is nothing new being made. Sad but true. However, lots of people like to believe utter nonsense because it makes them feel better. And I'm a hater for busting their bubbles.
bmattock
Veteran
No it isn't. Kroger grocery store is a normal retail channel. Wal-Mart is a normal retail channel. Adorama isn't, Freestyle isn't, B&H isn't. Consumer sales ruled when film was king. Freestyle was and is a specialty marketer. A great one, and one I buy from all the time. But the mainstream has never even heard of it.
aizan
Veteran
so all of agfaphoto's manufacturing equipment was sold off to someone in south korea?
aizan
Veteran
unless you live in los angeles, especially hollywood.
carlb
Established
Oh well, even if all the film manufacturers closed their doors tomorrow, there should be some bargains to be had so I'll just buy a freezer and load up.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Bill you keep parroting this line, but its not true. Yes, Agfa the company is gone and will not be back, but the owner of Fotoimpex Berlin hired a bunch of Agfa employees and bought some of the equipment from Agfa and began making one of Agfa's papers. He did it. Not a fantasy or a wish, it f--king happened. They are going to begin production of APX 100 and 400 films when the old stock is finally sold out. They'll be sold under the Adox name, not Agfa, but they'll be very similar to the originals, just like the paper they're NOW MAKING.
bmattock
Veteran
By definition, most of America does not live in LA, let alone near Hollywood. My wife is from NYC and she used to get like that too. She thought that everyone had a bodega on every street corner, and no one had to have a car to get to work. Because, you know, everyplace is exactly the same as Manhattan.