NicoM
Well-known
Both the M7 and MP sell for the same price new, but the M7 sells for so much less in the used market. I don't get the huge prece difference. Am I missing something?
enero
Killer of Threads
My take on the price discrepancy is simple, people think the MP is cooler then the M7.
The MP is a "classic" mechanical camera, it's got the allure of class and legacy. It will least generation after generation if cared for properly. Also there is the Black Paint, in time your camera will brass because of the way you use it, thus personalizing it, making it even more special. Whereas the M7 is just a new fangled electronically controlled doodad that will undoubtedly fail on you after a couple of years because new stuff sucks
I dont personally think this, but I think a lot of people do. I'm actually in the market for a used MP and am willing to spend the extra green on it. I personally have an M6c and love it, but I just plain prefer the way the MP handles, and the only electronics I like in my film cameras is the light meter.
mfogiel
Veteran
Since an M7 is a much more useful camera than the MP, the second hand price is lower, because people buy film Leicas today mainly for collecting, no for using.
maitani
Well-known
mechanical craftmanship with highest quality materials and mechanical shutter (paired with good marketing) vs. non-snobbery AE usefulness, circuitboards, electonically controlled cloth shutter..
both are superb cameras, with different 'target group'
that said, I want an M7 badly.. (i want one for the shutter sound alone...)
both are superb cameras, with different 'target group'
that said, I want an M7 badly.. (i want one for the shutter sound alone...)
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Eh? How is a battery-dependent M7 'more useful' than a non-battery-dependent MP? It's better if you like to rely on AE, but many don't, and it's hard to think of any other advantage. And have you any evidence that 'people buy film Leicas today mainly for collecting'? I can think of ONE person I know who buys new Leicas 'for collecting' , but then, he has scores, probably hundreds, of Leicas old and new. Every other Leica owner I know uses their camera(s), especially the ones they buy new -- and I've known a lot of Leica owners since I started using them in 1969.
Part of the appeal of a film Leica is its durability -- and electronic wonders are never as reliable in the long term as mechanical devices. You can make most parts for a mechanical camera. Try making a circuit board...
In other words, M7s are bought by people who want the snob appeal of a Leica, but don't care to take full control themselves, while MPs are bought by people who really know and care about what they're doing. There are more of the latter so supply and demand means that MPs cost more.
Yes, I know that some serious photographers buy M7s (though I've never understood why) but it's hard to think of any rational explanation of the price difference other than the above.
Cheers,
R.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Oh, that's why I bought my M7! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
f6andBthere
Well-known
Dear Roger,
I'd hardly call the M7 an electronic wonder ... especially considering how late Leica came to the AE party.
I'd hardly call the M7 an electronic wonder ... especially considering how late Leica came to the AE party.
And what a bizzare generalisation from someone like yourself!
gdi
Veteran
People who rely on AE will argue that it is a critical feature. Most who don't will argue it is a potential point of failure. You'll have to judge for yourself the logic of the pro-AE posters insinuation that MPs are bought for collecting and M7 for serious photographers. If the camera choice was purely utilitarian, the M7 users would own Bessas.
I chose the MP over the M7 for several reasons: the shutter dial is consistent with my old Leica (M3), it feels better in hand than the M7 due to the slight, but noticeable size difference and the far better feel of enamel over black chrome, and the mechanical aspect. For me, the only draw to the M7 is the significantly lower price. A nice M7 can usually be found for around $1700 and a nice MP for around $2800; that is a big difference. But then, finding a Bessa at $500 is probably not out of the question either.
I chose the MP over the M7 for several reasons: the shutter dial is consistent with my old Leica (M3), it feels better in hand than the M7 due to the slight, but noticeable size difference and the far better feel of enamel over black chrome, and the mechanical aspect. For me, the only draw to the M7 is the significantly lower price. A nice M7 can usually be found for around $1700 and a nice MP for around $2800; that is a big difference. But then, finding a Bessa at $500 is probably not out of the question either.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
Many Leica lovers prefer classic all mech cameras. I think its a roots thing for some of us as well.
Are there more used M7 on the used market? Could be the reason.
maitani
Well-known
The M7 can be used in fullmanual mode too,
in addition, should the batteries drain, you still have 2 emergency speeds which work battery-less.
I see the M7 as counterpole to my M4,
one is suited for auto-long exposures, for TTL Flash, quick 'on the fly' work (if one want's)
the other is the slower more classical 'full mechanical' and meterless approach,
both are lovely, choice is good, they're tools, both very similar, but for different tasks.
both might be chosen on different moods.
in addition, should the batteries drain, you still have 2 emergency speeds which work battery-less.
I see the M7 as counterpole to my M4,
one is suited for auto-long exposures, for TTL Flash, quick 'on the fly' work (if one want's)
the other is the slower more classical 'full mechanical' and meterless approach,
both are lovely, choice is good, they're tools, both very similar, but for different tasks.
both might be chosen on different moods.
thegman
Veteran
Some slightly peculiar points of view here. I will only comment on my own choices though, I got an MP over an M7 because I find it sexier. I'm not anti-battery, and I like AE. So for me, there are very few downsides to the M7, it's only real failing in my eyes is not looking like an MP. So really, I got the *MP* through snob appeal, but really the M7 would have made more sense, and maybe I'd even still have it.
Platinum RF
Well-known
M7 has many competitors (Konica, Zeiss), MP does not.
Quote:
M7s are bought by people who want the snob appeal of a Leica, but don't care to take full control themselves, while MPs are bought by people who really know and care about what they're doing ...
I disagree with you M7s are bought by people who want to use Leica, it is convenient, has better chance to capture a correct exposed image. While MPs are bought by people who want the snob appeal of a Leica (expensive and classic), but don't care to take what they're doing ...they're doing ...
Quote:
M7s are bought by people who want the snob appeal of a Leica, but don't care to take full control themselves, while MPs are bought by people who really know and care about what they're doing ...
I disagree with you M7s are bought by people who want to use Leica, it is convenient, has better chance to capture a correct exposed image. While MPs are bought by people who want the snob appeal of a Leica (expensive and classic), but don't care to take what they're doing ...they're doing ...
emiguevara
Member
And since when are Leica prices rationally determined??? Why is it then that a 35mm Summicron is sold for at least three times more money than a 40mm Summicron of same vintage? However, I think that the MP has a certain charme that the M7 lacks. Pure romanticism, I know.
furcafe
Veteran
I agree w/this assessment. Personally, I only have experience w/the M7, which I find to be faster than my M6 TTL in dealing w/rapidly changing light conditions because of the AE & has a more accurate shutter (may be important if you shoot E6). The user interface also complements other AE cameras like the M9 (eventually the new digital M) & Hexar RF, which I use in a similar fashion.
I already have classic Leicas, e.g., M3, KS-15(4), M4, etc., so the MP adds nothing but a meter, & when I want to shoot in super-macho, minimalist, mode, I'd rather use a handheld meter or eyeball it (which is why I'm not bothered in the least by the difference in shutter speed dial direction between the old & new Leicas or between new Leicas & Nikons).
If I want to shoot in a style that's in-between, I have a M6 TTL, & I can't see any practical value that's added by the MP, just retro styling & slightly smaller size. I'll defer to more mechanically knowledgeable people as to whether the MP is actually better built than previous models, but even if it is, any improvement is insignificant to me.
I already have classic Leicas, e.g., M3, KS-15(4), M4, etc., so the MP adds nothing but a meter, & when I want to shoot in super-macho, minimalist, mode, I'd rather use a handheld meter or eyeball it (which is why I'm not bothered in the least by the difference in shutter speed dial direction between the old & new Leicas or between new Leicas & Nikons).
If I want to shoot in a style that's in-between, I have a M6 TTL, & I can't see any practical value that's added by the MP, just retro styling & slightly smaller size. I'll defer to more mechanically knowledgeable people as to whether the MP is actually better built than previous models, but even if it is, any improvement is insignificant to me.
maitani
Well-known
if you think an M7 can't look sexy check this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M7-a-...lack-Paint-Vulkanit-0-58-in-OVP-/170952779965
unfortunately it went high too fast, to even consider a bid.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M7-a-...lack-Paint-Vulkanit-0-58-in-OVP-/170952779965
unfortunately it went high too fast, to even consider a bid.
maddoc
... likes film again.
M7 is a camera to take photos with, MP a camera to take photos of ... and yes, batteries for the M7 are easily available and the camera can be used manually. BTW, black chrome on brass looks more professional than the shoe-polish type finish of the MPoser ...
doolittle
Well-known
I suspect you are right. From the few dealers websites I looked at, the number of M7s offered is a large multiple of MPs.
I tried to find the total number of MPs vs total number of M7s produced, but haven't found any hard facts.
