daveleo
what?
I'm not a Leica guy so I shouldn't even comment on this, but I have to agree with your remarks, Stephen.
It is incredibly disloyal, and $$$ hurtful to the traditional dealers.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Whine indeed. That $1200 Sony Hexar D-RF will have horrendous write times, and the Epson RD-2 will be too damn noisy at ISO 256,000,000.
The true reason forums exist to to whine.
As mentioned earlier, they've only had four years to get this done, going back prior to the 9/9/9 announcement of the M9.
Bingo.
They can't have corporate-owned stores with nothing on the shelves, right?
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Like I said, I can't really "prove" or "confirm" that the distribution method is factual - I was hoping some of the Leica folks here who seem to be always "in the know" (i.e. Jaap et al.) would be able to validate or invalidate that information.
That being said, don't get me wrong - as some may feel my intent here is to b*tch about Leica - I get why the items are delayed - I am just disappointed at the fact that, after waiting (and having been "burnt" by a lousy new M8 back in 2008) and finally realizing that Leica may actually have a camera that is decent enough for me, they can't really get it into my hands this year - so, I just have to wait. No biggie.. like I said.. offers me more time to save $$$$.
Cheers,
Dave
That being said, don't get me wrong - as some may feel my intent here is to b*tch about Leica - I get why the items are delayed - I am just disappointed at the fact that, after waiting (and having been "burnt" by a lousy new M8 back in 2008) and finally realizing that Leica may actually have a camera that is decent enough for me, they can't really get it into my hands this year - so, I just have to wait. No biggie.. like I said.. offers me more time to save $$$$.
Cheers,
Dave
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'd be pissed at having to pay current prices for two year old technology ... that's a double edged sword IMO.
What's any two year old digital camere worth these days as a percentage of it's new price!
What's any two year old digital camere worth these days as a percentage of it's new price!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Nice try. However they are not really moving.They are building a new facility but keeping the old one running in tandem for the time being. There is no expectation of major holdups. The spectacle of a parade of Gnomes with knotted handkerchiefs on sticks over their shoulders streaming out of the gate at Solms and marching heigh-ho to their new caves in Wetzlar does not quite tally with reality.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Jaap,
Can you perhaps shed any light on why no M240's will ship till 2014 based on my discussion? As I said, I have no way of confirming or invalidating that statement.
Cheers,
Dave
Can you perhaps shed any light on why no M240's will ship till 2014 based on my discussion? As I said, I have no way of confirming or invalidating that statement.
Cheers,
Dave
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Eric T
Well-known
Try the Foveon sensor Sigma cameras and then see if you still give a hoot about Leica.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
And here I am still waiting for my $40 film rangefinder made in the 60's to appear at my door.
It's like we live in two different worlds
It's like we live in two different worlds
Godfrey
somewhat colored
It seems that all the Leica enthusiast love these days has become the love of ranting about Leica in any particular. Feh. Enthusiasts sound more and more like trolls.
The M9 came out in 2009. They were in short supply for a year and some. I bought mine in 2012, when they became more plentiful and there was some discounting. It's wonderful 2006-2008 technology, the time when it was under development. Didn't bother me one wit to buy it in 2012. It's a lovely camera, it will last a long time to come.
The new M was just released. It will be in short supply for a year and some. I'll likely buy one in 2014-2015.
I recall the M4, M5 and M6 being little different when they were first released (yes, I was around then and doing photography ...): Short supply for the first year or so, easily available afterwards.
Only the CL was different as it was intended to be a volume seller (and it was), just like the Leica X Vario (which seems to be selling well too by all accounts).
Patience.
G
The M9 came out in 2009. They were in short supply for a year and some. I bought mine in 2012, when they became more plentiful and there was some discounting. It's wonderful 2006-2008 technology, the time when it was under development. Didn't bother me one wit to buy it in 2012. It's a lovely camera, it will last a long time to come.
The new M was just released. It will be in short supply for a year and some. I'll likely buy one in 2014-2015.
I recall the M4, M5 and M6 being little different when they were first released (yes, I was around then and doing photography ...): Short supply for the first year or so, easily available afterwards.
Only the CL was different as it was intended to be a volume seller (and it was), just like the Leica X Vario (which seems to be selling well too by all accounts).
Patience.
G
Frontman
Well-known
Olympus had no problem handling a ten-fold increase in production in the 50's when the Pen was introduced. Half a century later one would think a company could do at least as well.
As for what Leica pays their staff, a simple google search shows it is significantly higher than the average salary paid here in Japan. Unless Leica factory workers are putting in sub-6-hour days like full-time factory workers in France, I don't see that labor is the issue.
Either there are problems with production or technology, or the delay is simply to keep demand strong and keep upward pressure on prices. Leica certainly can't compete in the mainstream market, so they have to maintain their "exclusivity", and limiting supply will certainly get the most dollars out of each unit eventually sold.
As for what Leica pays their staff, a simple google search shows it is significantly higher than the average salary paid here in Japan. Unless Leica factory workers are putting in sub-6-hour days like full-time factory workers in France, I don't see that labor is the issue.
Either there are problems with production or technology, or the delay is simply to keep demand strong and keep upward pressure on prices. Leica certainly can't compete in the mainstream market, so they have to maintain their "exclusivity", and limiting supply will certainly get the most dollars out of each unit eventually sold.
YYV_146
Well-known
Rumor goes that Sony will have a FF mirrorless body out before 2014, priced in tandem with the RX1/1R...Even if stocks run dry in the US, I could always try Hong Kong or Beijing, nice thing about Japanese companies is that they try to keep products available in Asia.
Experience-wise I believe the NEX bodies are every bit as good as an M9 or M240, unless you absolutely must have an RF patch...For that, Fuji is doing very interesting things with the X100s, make it work with any lens and you have perfect, electronically simulated rangefinder-style shooting.
Experience-wise I believe the NEX bodies are every bit as good as an M9 or M240, unless you absolutely must have an RF patch...For that, Fuji is doing very interesting things with the X100s, make it work with any lens and you have perfect, electronically simulated rangefinder-style shooting.
GaryMulcahey
Member
Dave,
Did you give Camtec in Montreal a call? They are a boutique. I got an MM in about a month. I know the 240 is way behind but their waiting list may be a better waiting list to be on.
G
Did you give Camtec in Montreal a call? They are a boutique. I got an MM in about a month. I know the 240 is way behind but their waiting list may be a better waiting list to be on.
G
Leica states their focus is on painstaking high quality precision manufacturing, and then they start production with loose strap lugs, resulting in a recall. Oops.
It's all about the bottom line. They'd rather build a few a day and be backordered for many months than train new employees or temps and ship them sooner at increased overhead, and then lay them off when the demand slackens.
It's all about the bottom line. They'd rather build a few a day and be backordered for many months than train new employees or temps and ship them sooner at increased overhead, and then lay them off when the demand slackens.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Waiting times. How extraordinary. Did you ever buy a kitchen, furniture, cars? Two colleagues and I ordered the same car model. nothing fancy, just a brand new Japanese model. I waited 3 months, they waited 8 months after ordering. difference was that they wanted some extras like 4WD or automatic gear box, while I took a standard model. a lot of things that are not standard consumer goods are not readily available.
Look at the waiting time for the Canon 1DX
Look at the waiting time for the Canon 1DX
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I have no idea, I received my M240, ordered five weeks previously, last Saturday....
Roger Hicks
Veteran
(1) That's nor how precision engineering works. It takes a long time (and costs a lot of money) to train someone to do something complex so that they know what they're doing.
(2) It's nor how decent human beings work. Good employers respect their employees, rather than treating them like casual day-labourers.
Cheers,
R.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I've considered that as well Gary. I may give them a call and find out just how "long" their list is - just to figure things out whether it's more beneficial to give up on my local dealer (which, of course, would make me a bit sad . . . I shouldn't have to give up on a local dealer that's carried Leica for a long time)
But even so, as I've read through the replies here and over at the Leica User Forum it's interesting to note the differences in how quickly some can get or receive a camera after ordering one while others seem to wait longer than it takes humans to have a child
I know I am not a Leica employee and I definitely don't (or can't) know what they know or understand their queue system - I'm just a guy who had hoped for an M a few months after placing his order back in March/April.
Cheers,
Dave