Leica's Snail Paced Production (or lack thereof)

[YYV_146]

I've considered that as well Gary. I may give them a call and find out just how "long" their list is - just to figure things out whether it's more beneficial to give up on my local dealer (which, of course, would make me a bit sad . . . I shouldn't have to give up on a local dealer that's carried Leica for a long time)

But even so, as I've read through the replies here and over at the Leica User Forum it's interesting to note the differences in how quickly some can get or receive a camera after ordering one while others seem to wait longer than it takes humans to have a child 😀

I know I am not a Leica employee and I definitely don't (or can't) know what they know or understand their queue system - I'm just a guy who had hoped for an M a few months after placing his order back in March/April.

Cheers,
Dave

There's definitely something fishy going on...I have a grey market dealer on very good terms in HK, I went to his store yesterday and asked how long the M240 queues' are. He said that he could bring some imported from Europe by Saturday, but with no warranty. But he also said that he could get non-imported ones next week, at least 3. He offered to sell me one at less than $8k.

Not that I'd buy an M240, but Leica does seems to be very generous to some regions while downright ignore others...the timeframe I got from my preferred guy in the US was 2-4 months.

 

[Fraser]

Waiting times. How extraordinary. Did you ever buy a kitchen, furniture, cars? Two colleagues and I ordered the same car model. nothing fancy, just a brand new Japanese model. I waited 3 months, they waited 8 months after ordering. difference was that they wanted some extras like 4WD or automatic gear box, while I took a standard model. a lot of things that are not standard consumer goods are not readily available.

Look at the waiting time for the Canon 1DX

What waiting times on 1dx maybe when they first came out but not now I just bought two and the waiting time was 24 hours. Its very frustrating when the waiting times are so long fair enough nobody minds waiting a couple of months but not 6months or more!
Maybe the problem is Leica customers are too loyal and would rather wait than change brands.
I also think it is frustrating to have the money ready and once you have eventually bought the thing with your hard earned cash to start having doubts about how new or old the technology is.

 

[Roger Hicks]

What waiting times on 1dx maybe when they first came out but not now I just bought two and the waiting time was 24 hours. Its very frustrating when the waiting times are so long fair enough nobody minds waiting a couple of months but not 6months or more!
Maybe the problem is Leica customers are too loyal and would rather wait than change brands.
I also think it is frustrating to have the money ready and once you have eventually bought the thing with your hard earned cash to start having doubts about how new or old the technology is.

But what can they change to?

If you want a new digi rangefinder there's only one game in town.

Cheers,

R.

 

[thegman]

I think key to dealing with these delays is simply to accept that you can't have everything you want, exactly when you want.

Nobody needs an M240, we've all lived without one for the vast majority of our lives, and not missed it for a second. If you really want one, great, but as parents often attempt to teach their children at the sweetie section of the supermarket, you can't always get what you want.

We can complain about Leica's manufacturing, their recalls, or their low staffing, but the fact is people just want their new item, they want it now, and that is not Leica's problem, it's your problem.

 

[Fraser]

But what can they change to?

If you want a new digi rangefinder there's only one game in town.

Cheers,

R.

Maybe that's part of the problem does anybody really need a rangefinder and if leica don't keep up with demand rangefinder cameras will end up being odd ball historical things.

 

[thegman]

Maybe that's part of the problem does anybody really need a rangefinder and if leica don't keep up with demand rangefinder cameras will end up being odd ball historical things.

Nobody needs a range finder, or a TLR for that matter. I'd say both are oddball historical things. That's not to say they're not useful or good, but the market has relegated them to very, very niche status.

I do think though that not keeping up with demand will only heighten most people's desire to buy. People want what they can't have.

 

[dcsang]

But what can they change to?

If you want a new digi rangefinder there's only one game in town.

Cheers,

R.

Yep.. that's my point - and it's not because I want to look like some rock star or such - it's truly because carrying a D700 with grip and even a "small" lens like the 35mm f1.4 AF-S G is heavy over a 8-14 hour day.

My profile pic is from a wedding from a few years back - two M's and a Rollei and it's still no where near the weight of the D700/grip/lens.

Having used rangefinders since I was in my early teens (that's in the late 70s) I just seem to have an easier time with them.

But others are right - no one "needs" a rangefinder - but no one also "needs" an SLR or a P&S or any camera for that matter - why don't we just use our phones? The fact of the matter is, I prefer using a rangefinder and, as Roger (and myself) have noted - Leica's currently the only company making one (and yes, I did try using the X-Pro1 for weddings.. sorry it just doesn't cut it).

Cheers,
Dave

 

[furcafe]

Dude, sorry to hear about your wait [insert "Simpson's" clip from the Homer buys a gun episode here]. I was in the same basic position as you, though I was fortunately able to use the X-Pro1 for my "RF-friendly" assignments & had the advantage of getting my pre-order for the 240 in way early.

Putting aside whatever business/marketing/financial reasons they may have for keeping things close to the vest, Leica has not been very forthcoming about delivery schedules & nobody's really happy about the situation. They haven't even told the folks at the Leica store here in DC very much & the strap lug fiasco couldn't have helped the situation.

Keep hope alive.

Yep.. that's my point - and it's not because I want to look like some rock star or such - it's truly because carrying a D700 with grip and even a "small" lens like the 35mm f1.4 AF-S G is heavy over a 8-14 hour day.

My profile pic is from a wedding from a few years back - two M's and a Rollei and it's still no where near the weight of the D700/grip/lens.

Having used rangefinders since I was in my early teens (that's in the late 70s) I just seem to have an easier time with them.

But others are right - no one "needs" a rangefinder - but no one also "needs" an SLR or a P&S or any camera for that matter - why don't we just use our phones? The fact of the matter is, I prefer using a rangefinder and, as Roger (and myself) have noted - Leica's currently the only company making one (and yes, I did try using the X-Pro1 for weddings.. sorry it just doesn't cut it).

Cheers,
Dave

 

[dcsang]

Dude, sorry to hear about your wait [insert "Simpson's" clip from the Homer buys a gun episode here]. I was in the same basic position as you, though I was fortunately able to use the X-Pro1 for my "RF-friendly" assignments & had the advantage of getting my pre-order for the 240 in way early.

Putting aside whatever business/marketing/financial reasons they may have for keeping things close to the vest, Leica has not been very forthcoming about delivery schedules & nobody's really happy about the situation. They haven't even told the folks at the Leica store here in DC very much & the strap lug fiasco couldn't have helped the situation.

Keep hope alive.

Thanks Chris.

And ya.. I remember that episode... and right now.. all I can hear is Tom Petty.. 😀 😀 😀

Cheers,
Dave

 

[splitimageview]

(1) That's nor how precision engineering works. It takes a long time (and costs a lot of money) to train someone to do something complex so that they know what they're doing.

(2) It's nor how decent human beings work. Good employers respect their employees, rather than treating them like casual day-labourers.

(1) They've had more than enough years for this.

(2) There is no disrespect in hiring temporary or part-time workers, especially when the alternative is no employment at all for them. 🙂 These are obviously not 'casual day laborers' due to the cost of training as you mentioned, and the necessary skills.

Having hired technical and skilled production workers myself on this basis to meet short-term demand, it's not an ideal situation, but it's a normal part of business. Fortunately there is a wonderful pool of such workers in my area, that are more than happy to take such temporary positions and they feel no disrespect. Many of them are moms, for example; it gives them extra income while still be able to care for their kids without the burden of a full-time position. That flexibility is extremely valuable to many.

 

[Mackinaw]

Olympus had no problem handling a ten-fold increase in production in the 50's when the Pen was introduced. Half a century later one would think a company could do at least as well. ....

Last year, I waited three months to get my OM-D. Wanting to buy local, I went down to my "local" dealer (100 kilometers away) and placed my order. And no, waiting didn't bother me. I realized it was a popular camera and was told by my dealer that Olympus was having a hard time keeping up with demand.

Jim B.

 

[dcsang]

I just placed a call to Camtec in Montreal (the only Leica Boutique in Canada) - and they said they had approx 20 people on their waiting list and the wait time would be "approximately 3 months". I asked if that was "for sure" and the gentleman said that they usually receive one camera every 2 weeks but they can never be sure.

He did state that all Leica Boutiques around the world are in the same predicament so I can only assume that Jaap has friends in high places 😀

Cheers,
Dave

 

[sepiareverb]

The fact of the matter is, I prefer using a rangefinder and, as Roger (and myself) have noted - Leica's currently the only company making one (and yes, I did try using the X-Pro1 for weddings.. sorry it just doesn't cut it).

There's always the M9 or the ME (not sure what wait times are on the ME). Getting a used M9 would get the weight off your neck during jobs. They've dropped in price quite a bit.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

the cost of the mm is sgd 11,500 in singapore and hong kong.
in dubai, the cost of the mm converted to sgd is 9,500.

singapore and hongkong (and presumably china) has stock.

dubai doesn't and the salesperson on the phone said that stocks
comes in small quantities every few months.

see a problem here ?

 

[Godfrey]

There's always the M9 or the ME (not sure what wait times are on the ME). Getting a used M9 would get the weight off your neck during jobs. They've dropped in price quite a bit.

M-E models seem readily available, and of course there are a lot of M9s available used these days.

Not mine. 🙂

G

 

[user237428934]

In our big german dslr forum, a M 240 is on sale as brand new for 6800 EUR instead of the original 6200 EUR. so why wait 🙂

 

[furcafe]

In my experience, & I'm sure Dave agrees, the M9/M-E's relatively poor high ISO performance makes it less than ideal for shooting weddings & similar events in available light, at least the parts that take place indoors.

There's always the M9 or the ME (not sure what wait times are on the ME). Getting a used M9 would get the weight off your neck during jobs. They've dropped in price quite a bit.

 

[Roger Hicks]

In my experience, & I'm sure Dave agrees, the M9/M-E's relatively poor high ISO performance makes it less than ideal for shooting weddings & similar events in available light, at least the parts that take place indoors.

Of course, it's MUCH worse than any other digital RF on the market, and nothing like as good as a film body...

Note for the hard of thinking: "irony" does not mean "ferrous".

Cheers,

R.

 

[furcafe]

True, but I suppose that's why he still has the D700, as heavy as it is (& why bring up film, it's 2013, dude).

It is is "MUCH" worse than the 240, which brings us full circle.

Of course, it's MUCH worse than any other digital RF on the market, and nothing like as good as a film body...

Note for the hard of thinking: "irony" does not mean "ferrous".

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

True, but I suppose that's why he still has the D700, as heavy as it is (& why bring up film, it's 2013, dude).

It is is "MUCH" worse than the 240, which brings us full circle.

Beautifully argued. Do you know the story of the two fishwives who used to scream abuse at one another from two stalls, each next door to the other? They were arguing from different premises...

Cheers,

R.