Richard G
Veteran
I am neither impressed nor so perturbed. New production lines can throw up these things. This problem offered no opportunity for plausible deniability. The M9 software still doesn't make the shutter cocking reliable. Discreet mode suited me very well, but when my sensor was cleaned the 'experts' upgraded me to the new firmware without asking. It is months now that they haven't released a new firmware to fix the advertised features of the camera.
All that said, I have had my M9-P for over a year now, as a late adopter, and I am really very happy with it. With my little Elmar M 50 collapsed it is a full frame digital that fits in the palm of the hand. I use it every day. Anyone who buys an M240 after three years of production is likely to be just as happy.
All that said, I have had my M9-P for over a year now, as a late adopter, and I am really very happy with it. With my little Elmar M 50 collapsed it is a full frame digital that fits in the palm of the hand. I use it every day. Anyone who buys an M240 after three years of production is likely to be just as happy.
Souljer
Established
Hi,
We are talking about cameras, right? I'd be happy to pay double for a photographic tool that makes my life happier by being easier to use, works better and is smaller and lighter considering it's hanging around my neck all day and night. Not to mention that related equipment like lenses are smaller, lighter and better at making photographs.
I'm not seeing the logic in these types of arguments. It seems that many people are upset with Leica because the M costs $7000.00 rather than because it's a poor camera or product. No one is forcing anyone to buy one. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I don't blame you, I don't like the price either. I'm not angry about it though and I still want one.
If price is the main argument maybe an XA is a better tool than a Canon 5D since it's clearly less expensive and can take pictures just like the 5D? Many people, myself included, have said that buying a Leica (or other expensive camera system) will not make you a better photographer. Buying the cheapest camera will also not make you a better photographer. However, in my opinion, a more complex and less ergonomic tool might get in the way to becoming one (whether it's expensive or not (which is relative)).
Back when I was shooting movie stills, I was outside and the sun burned some holes in the shutter. The camera was still under the 3 year warranty and I sent it in. It came back repaired at no charge. Was I supposed to be upset that the shutter is not fire-proof? They fixed it and they are fixing this. Who on this thread that is crying so much has an M 240 and is sending it in for repair? If you do not own an M 240 and are not sending anything in for repair, what are you complaining about?
I've had my camera knocked from a table onto a concrete floor more than once, been kicked and banged into at concerts and clubs, etc. Nothing ever broke except the lens hood once got partially crushed and bent in front of the 35mm.
Since the hood is made of aluminum, I bent it back out of the way and kept shooting. Focus was fine, no little AF motors to break or knock out of alignment, camera body is metal and functioned perfectly to get me through the assignment.
Good luck trying that with a 5D.
If doing 300% of what the M 240 does, still does not make the 5D a better photographic tool, what's the point?
We are talking about cameras, right? I'd be happy to pay double for a photographic tool that makes my life happier by being easier to use, works better and is smaller and lighter considering it's hanging around my neck all day and night. Not to mention that related equipment like lenses are smaller, lighter and better at making photographs.
I'm not seeing the logic in these types of arguments. It seems that many people are upset with Leica because the M costs $7000.00 rather than because it's a poor camera or product. No one is forcing anyone to buy one. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. I don't blame you, I don't like the price either. I'm not angry about it though and I still want one.
If price is the main argument maybe an XA is a better tool than a Canon 5D since it's clearly less expensive and can take pictures just like the 5D? Many people, myself included, have said that buying a Leica (or other expensive camera system) will not make you a better photographer. Buying the cheapest camera will also not make you a better photographer. However, in my opinion, a more complex and less ergonomic tool might get in the way to becoming one (whether it's expensive or not (which is relative)).
I was thinking the same thing. The company is acknowledging the error and is taking full responsibilities for the consequences. What's the problem? Leica is NEVER supposed to make mistakes because their equipment is so expensive? That's impossible.
Back when I was shooting movie stills, I was outside and the sun burned some holes in the shutter. The camera was still under the 3 year warranty and I sent it in. It came back repaired at no charge. Was I supposed to be upset that the shutter is not fire-proof? They fixed it and they are fixing this. Who on this thread that is crying so much has an M 240 and is sending it in for repair? If you do not own an M 240 and are not sending anything in for repair, what are you complaining about?
Sure. Why not. The Nikon broke the fall and saved the Leica and lens from further damage.So I wonder ... if your Leica and Noct plunges eathward and lands on your Nikon D4, will they replace that as well?
I've had my camera knocked from a table onto a concrete floor more than once, been kicked and banged into at concerts and clubs, etc. Nothing ever broke except the lens hood once got partially crushed and bent in front of the 35mm.
Since the hood is made of aluminum, I bent it back out of the way and kept shooting. Focus was fine, no little AF motors to break or knock out of alignment, camera body is metal and functioned perfectly to get me through the assignment.
Good luck trying that with a 5D.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Same here. But don't let facts get in the way of Truthiness! We are expensive car-owning dentists who just like to rub them Leicas.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I was being half-jokingly semi-serious. :angel:
Souljer
Established
Hi,
I've wanted a collapsible 50 for years but still don't have one.
Tonight I was shooting and I would flip the frame-lines lever to see how a 50mm composition might look and it was good.
However I did need the 1.4 that the 35mm Summilux had. Was shooting at a 30th and sometimes below.
I'll get it eventually I guess.
I really like that idea.
I've wanted a collapsible 50 for years but still don't have one.
Tonight I was shooting and I would flip the frame-lines lever to see how a 50mm composition might look and it was good.
However I did need the 1.4 that the 35mm Summilux had. Was shooting at a 30th and sometimes below.
I'll get it eventually I guess.
paulfish4570
Veteran
my, my.
mod against mod.
leicaphiles against, well, you know.
even some leicaphiles against leicaphiles.
all over strap lugs.
tsk, tsk.
mod against mod.
leicaphiles against, well, you know.
even some leicaphiles against leicaphiles.
all over strap lugs.
tsk, tsk.
Richard G
Veteran
My Dad was a dentist, with five sons and the attendant private school fees that are a weird feature of middle class life in England and Australia. He gave me my first Leica when I was 17. I don't knock dentists. He preferred the OM system and used it for his work.
Are you EVER happy?
back alley
IMAGES
my, my.
mod against mod.
leicaphiles against, well, you know.
even some leicaphiles against leicaphiles.
all over strap lugs.
tsk, tsk.
I'm not against anyone here...tho I do admit to being frustrated with the thin skinned around here and what seems like some folks taking any opportunity to slag me...
Jeff S
Well-known
Roger, you missed my point, or perhaps your own.
I absolutely agree the difference between the M8 (or M9) and the M(240), which I assume you now reference above, is massive [or huge, or some other very big distinction].
But that's not what you said; the only "massive" difference you cited was between the M8 and M9. And that's simply not the case.
You evidently don't recall our prior exchanges on the M8.2, where you slammed the M8.2 versus the M9, but that's ok. At least I hope you don't still think the difference between the M8 and M9 is much at all. Puts clearly doesn't, and in some ways demonstrates a small edge to the M8.2. I prefer it to the M9 for b/w especially.
Jeff
Michael Markey
Veteran
Maybe so although the company does seem prone to making its fair (?) share of errors.
I think it perfectly reasonable for people to sound frustrated if they have been so affected.
I`m not sure that it does the company or its customers much good in the long run to be so compliant.
Sure ,there may be those who get some sort of "I told you so" satisfaction out of such a situation but that sort of thing is best dealt with in an open and forthright manner , not by being thin skinned.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Derar Jeff,
I'm just as happy with your definitions as my own. Did I 'slam' the M8.2? I'd be surprised. The big advantage of the M9 is getting my focal lengths back.
Cheers,
R.
furcafe
Veteran
Some? I would say most, at least on this thread, since I haven't seen many people posting here who own, ordered, or even plan to order the M. I believe the (appropriately) German word is schadenfreude.
Got my email from Leica today & I will be sending my M back soon. Am I happy about it? Should the problem have happened in the 1st place? The answer to both questions is no, but as others have pointed out, sh*t happens. I also don't recall anyone putting a gun to my head to make me get the camera in the 1st place & Leica appears to be taking a reasonable approach to resolving the problem. Bottom line: #1stworldproblems.
Got my email from Leica today & I will be sending my M back soon. Am I happy about it? Should the problem have happened in the 1st place? The answer to both questions is no, but as others have pointed out, sh*t happens. I also don't recall anyone putting a gun to my head to make me get the camera in the 1st place & Leica appears to be taking a reasonable approach to resolving the problem. Bottom line: #1stworldproblems.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Having met Gabriel I can attest that what he states here is the truth... or sort of the truth... but there is some truth there.. honestly..
Cheers,
Dave
Exdsc
Well-known
Digital Leica Ms are Japanese, the sensor, the electronics, the firmware, that pretty much covers all the important stuff - the shell could be made anywhere.
And since this problem is related to the shell, its a German problem.
FA Limited
missing in action
are you saying if it was a sensor problem Leica would be mum about it
maybe we just expect too much from faceless multinational corporations
i think the solution is always to buy a late model camera, but with the waiting list for the M as long as it is, it probably won't be a problem if you were to order now
dct
perpetual amateur
What are you whining about...
What are you whining about...
You people amuse me!
I'm addressing all the complains and over-reacting about this strap-lug problem here.
Yes, it is annoying, related to a camera worth 8k, yabba-yabba, Leica's renown, yabba-yabba, the film era...
I for one would still be proud owning an M-240. And send it in nolens volens. And enjoy it when it is back.
Why do I also write on this thread without owning this model? Because I am a potential future owner (as soon I've put together the required chicken feed). I'm still convinced the M-240 is and will be the only mirror less system camera supporting real RF experience, native M mount support and - new to Leica M series - macro, video and zoom capabilities.
Saying this I hope this tempest in a teapot will be over when the first repaired bodies come back. And I'm still amused about this bashing, mostly from just envy people. And the thin skinned owners. And non.
Just carry on, I like drolly threads.
What are you whining about...
You people amuse me!
I'm addressing all the complains and over-reacting about this strap-lug problem here.
Yes, it is annoying, related to a camera worth 8k, yabba-yabba, Leica's renown, yabba-yabba, the film era...
I for one would still be proud owning an M-240. And send it in nolens volens. And enjoy it when it is back.
Why do I also write on this thread without owning this model? Because I am a potential future owner (as soon I've put together the required chicken feed). I'm still convinced the M-240 is and will be the only mirror less system camera supporting real RF experience, native M mount support and - new to Leica M series - macro, video and zoom capabilities.
Saying this I hope this tempest in a teapot will be over when the first repaired bodies come back. And I'm still amused about this bashing, mostly from just envy people. And the thin skinned owners. And non.
Just carry on, I like drolly threads.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I think your summary is wildly inaccurate.
The M sensor is made by CMOSIS, located in Belgium. The sensors in M8 and M9 were made by Kodak and their contractors in the USA. Most of the supporting circuitry was built by Leica in their manufacturing facilities from components sourced world wide. Who wrote the firmware? I'm not sure, I doubt it was the Japanese as the Japanese most often contract with software development houses in other parts of the world for their firmware and software.
G
aeturnum
Established
Not compared to other small camera manufacturers, no. I'm not trying to say that you should celebrate the current Leica price, I'm just pointing out that their prices are generally lower than other low volume camera makers. I think that relatively low premium may affect their ability to produce consistently high quality modern digital cameras.
ramosa
B&W
Thanks to Clint I now have a new moniker and line for my sig...
Cheers,
Dave
Well done, Dave +++