M10 Specs Up

[rxmd]

It's not a huge issue but lead bags will do exactly nothing to help. Cosmic rays are energetic enough to go through a lead bag like it's tissue paper. That's why Kodak (sigh) store their master film rolls in caves miles beneath-ground.

This is a discussion that while technically true is also completely irrelevant.

Cosmic rays are sparse enough at ground level that as a camera owner you really don't have to bother. You're more likely to lose your camera from dropping it, getting it stolen etc. than from the sensor becoming unusable due to excessive hot pixels from cosmic rays.

 

[fstops]

According to Steve Huff the availability date for M(10) is April/March 2013. But by the time some people will eventually get to use one would be more like the fall of 2013.

Essentially Leica really didn't have anything new for this Photokina. The ME is a M9, the S uses the same sensor as its predecessor and the X2 color bands are simply cosmetic.

Is Leica in trouble? Could be.

 

[jsrockit]

Essentially, Leica brought out something new but kept the M9 on the shelf, they just changed the name so they could drop the price on it (ME).

Well, that and they wanted to keep a traditional rangefinder camera in the mix while getting away from numbers (M10, etc).

 

[furcafe]

You are correct that they have more competition in the mirrorless market, but none of them has an optical RF. Irrelevant? Perhaps for those who are happy w/autofocus, focus peaking, etc., but that's not the market for the M.

As you posted earlier, Leica is a niche manufacturer. However, it's been a niche manufacturer for decades now, really since the introduction of the Nikon F in the late 1950s, & will continue to be so unless they abandon the optical RF that has been their bread & butter since the 1920s &/or become a much different/larger company. If you're looking for the latest technology from Leica, you're looking in the wrong place because they haven't been in that game since at least the 1960s.

Just think of all of the things that Leica's competitors have done with their cameras that Leica refuses to do. No sensor cleaning, no autofocus, sensors of unknown quality, NO weather sealing, subpar high ISO performance, slow buffering - the list goes on and on. And to top it off - ridiculous prices. And yes, volume helps. It helps quality control and brings down prices. Those are not bad things.
Not a single new idea from Leica and many common features omitted.
During the days of the M8, there was little mirrorless competition for Leica. Today, they are outclassed.

 

[furcafe]

Exactly, big is all relative. All you have to do is compare the M w/any full-frame dSLR.

Irrespective of it's M heritage it's a very nice looking camera by any standards. It's not tiny and likely now dwarfs an M3 (exaggeration) but the size looks good IMO and that EVF doesn't look like the 'wart' I thought it would! 😛

 

[furcafe]

Huff is just guessing like everyone else. Personally, I don't mind delays if they're related to ensuring product quality.

According to Steve Huff the availability date for M(10) is April/March 2013. But by the time some people will eventually get to use one would be more like the fall of 2013.

 

[ramosa]

I think its getting too big with all those accessories, the way I use my M9 is to supplement my DSLRs not to replace them ...

i agree. when i look at the new M, i keep thinking, "why not a D600?"

 

[furcafe]

You're right, we're talking "Leica time," not normal camera time. though to be fair, many people are only now getting their D800Es.

Ya.. not far when you think of "regular" daily life.

It may as well be an eon in terms of a product release cycle - then again, Leica isn't following a "normal" product release cycle and I guess we should be thankful for that.

I just look at other camera makers, even makers of other items - Apple for example - who announce and have product to market in a reasonable amount of time (a month to two months) .

Leica announces and then we wait for 4 months..... 😀

But like I said, at least people can save their money to buy the new M.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[ramosa]

Exactly, big is all relative. All you have to do is compare the M w/any full-frame dSLR.

hmmmm ... Leica: bigger, bigger, bigger ... and, yes, even an M8 seems big as compared to, say, an M6 ... and actually FF DSLRs are getting much, much smaller (just see the new Nikon and Canon releases) ...

 

[furcafe]

If you already have a dSLR, or need/want those features for everyday use, there's no reason to get the accessories.

i agree. when i look at the new M, i keep thinking, "why not a D600?"

 

[furcafe]

The new "smaller" full-frame Nikons & Canons are still significantly bigger than the M (& let's not even get started w/the size of the lenses). If you really want small, you have to ditch both the mirrorbox/prism & the optical VF.

hmmmm ... Leica: bigger, bigger, bigger ... and, yes, even an M8 seems big as compared to, say, an M6 ... and actually FF DSLRs are getting much, much smaller (just see the new Nikon and Canon releases) ...

 

[igi]

Exactly, big is all relative. All you have to do is compare the M w/any full-frame dSLR.

Which is not the point of any rangefinder right? I thought one big advantage is their size which keeps them unobtrusive and stealthy and light unlike their SLR counterparts...

 

[newsgrunt]

agree with John D., this is a camera that *could* see much documentary/photojournalist useage....if the price was *cough, cough* a bit more in keeping with our budgets 😉

as well, while no fan of EVF, this would see alot of use in how I work, esp the variable angle. be nice if a a third party made one with a larger viewer, almost mf waist level-ish.

as idle speculation, if this could walk out the door for $5000, I'd get one in a heartbeat. but alas, that ain't happening...

 

[Keith]

The difference in size to a film M is measured in millimeters ... in the real world it's bugger all! For a full frame camera with an optical rangefinder atop the M9 is a very small camera. I remember a few months ago when I was picking up my OMD from Camera Pro in Brisbane there was an M9 in amongst all the DSLRs ... it looked tiny!

 

[furcafe]

We are in violent agreement. If you want to use the M in straight-up HCB mode, you can. All the new features do (other than make the camera slightly bigger) is add dSLR-like (or, more accurately, mirrorless-like) functionality . . . if you want them.

Which is not the point of any rangefinder right? I thought one big advantage is their size which keeps them unobtrusive and stealthy and light unlike their SLR counterparts...

 

[icebear]

Just think of all of the things that Leica's competitors have done with their cameras that Leica refuses to do. No sensor cleaning, no autofocus, sensors of unknown quality, NO weather sealing, subpar high ISO performance, slow buffering - the list goes on and on. And to top it off - ridiculous prices. And yes, volume helps. It helps quality control and brings down prices. Those are not bad things.
Not a single new idea from Leica and many common features omitted.
During the days of the M8, there was little mirrorless competition for Leica. Today, they are outclassed.

Hi Eric,

why don't you sell off your Leica M8, R8 and X1, be happy and get a life if Leica is so outclassed as you claim.
Enjoy all your other gear and stop complaining about this stupid company with that red dot which make so old fashioned tools for so outrageous prices 😉.

 

[dct]

the 1st and only FF mirrorless

the 1st and only FF mirrorless

I agree that there were no innovations per say, but the new Leica M certainly checks every feature anybody has ever asked for so far (and many other features some strongly opposed), short of an in-body sensor stabilization. It will appeal and sell to quite a larger audience this time around.

And don't forget, the new "M" is the only FF "mirrorless" around. The first and only. For people who care to use their FF lenses (M, LTM, R or whatever with adapter) on a FF sensor mirrorless: The Leica M is the only choice.

 

[icebear]

Maybe I missed a comment in the previous 8 pages but did anyone comment on the spot metering capability of the M ilestone ?

Yeah sure, this is something relevant to getting most accurate exposure but hey, in the overall features discussed so far other topics like body size, high ISO and price are more important. And theoretical image quality discussions on the new sensor from which no one has seen an actual print yet.

I wonder if Leica displays any prints at Photokina. Anyone out there ?

 

[semordnilap]

Maybe I missed a comment in the previous 8 pages but did anyone comment on the spot metering capability of the M ilestone ?

Yeah sure, this is something relevant to getting most accurate exposure but hey, in the overall features discussed so far other topics like body size, high ISO and price are more important. And theoretical image quality discussions on the new sensor from which no one has seen an actual print yet.

I wonder if Leica displays any prints at Photokina. Anyone out there ?

I noticed that for sure... It seems there are multiple metering options, but that you may need to use live view to enable them?

It will be neat when they not only project framelines, but can project a small, key amount of information: metering points, etc., into the rf frame.

 

[jtm6]

Essentially Leica really didn't have anything new for this Photokina.

RFF needs the

emoticon.