M2, M4, M4-2, M4-P, M6 or M6 TTL

M2, M4, M4-2, M4-P, M6 or M6 TTL

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Chuck A

Chuck A

Chuck A
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I used to have an M2 and sold it over a decade ago when my interest in photography waned for a while. Stupid me. I am interested in getting back into a Leica M and am kinda torn between these models. The M2 and M4 are supposed to be smoother with great finders, The M4-2 and M4-P have a rep of not being as good and the M6 has the advantage of a built-in meter but uses the finder of the M4-P and gets mixed reviews.

I want to have at least 35mm framelines and I am looking toward an M because the shutter on the Bessas is louder. I like a quiet shutter and do appreciate an excellent quality camera. While an MP or M7 are great, they are more expensive than I want to go. These cameras can be had for around and under $1000 US without a lens. I will deal with the lens later. I am interested in what you folks think about the cameras from the M2 to the M6 TTL. Most of you have used them and can compare. I have read the Cameraquest reviews and would like some real world opinions. If you could pick one, which would it be?

Let me add here that I want a user camera not a collectable.
 
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get a canon p with a nice canon 35/2 lens.
with the left over $$ you could get another p body or lens, maybe the 50/1.4.

;)joe
 
NOTA (none of the above :) ) I've come the conclusion that if I ever get a Leica, I'll buy a M5. Why? Because it is that bit larger (the M3 I've held felt too small - quite awkward - in my hands) and it is new enough to have a meter.

Right now thier prices are going up as people have, alas, decided that the black sheep is collectable. Pity as I only like user cameras.

William
 
wlewisiii said:
NOTA (none of the above :) ) I've come the conclusion that if I ever get a Leica, I'll buy a M5. Why? Because it is that bit larger (the M3 I've held felt too small - quite awkward - in my hands) and it is new enough to have a meter.

Right now thier prices are going up as people have, alas, decided that the black sheep is collectable. Pity as I only like user cameras.

William
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Well, I considered the M5 but it is larger than I want. I have been using an Oly RC lately and it is a nice little camera. Maybe just a bit too small but it is very quiet and the finder is acceptable for now. I want to eventually get an interchangeable lens rangefinder and am considering getting back into a Leica for that. I will look at the Zeiss when it comes out though.
 
Chuck A said:
Cmon Joe, your killin me here. How quiet is the p compared to an M? And what are the framelines like?
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the p is not a quiet camera but then i don't think the leicas are that quiet either.
but they are quieter than the canon p.
the older bottom feeders are quiet.

but i don't shoot in churches and even the quietest music concerts have applause breaks. as a street shooter i have NEVER had someone look up or my way due to camera noise.

framelines are camera dependent. i always thought my canons had good framelines till i got my last p and those suckers GLOW. i love them.

i am soooo biased towards the p that you should seek more objective council...;)

joe
 
backalley photo said:
i am soooo biased towards the p that you should seek more objective council...;)

joe
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At least you are honest. Thanks for the info. I will have to look at one sometime. :)
 
I've learned over time that I prefer bigger cameras. My Kiev 5 is a monster - but I can hand hold it down where nothing else I've owned comes close.

I've never been fond of most small cameras (the only one I've owned that I like is my Karat 36. A serious chunk of metal in it's own right.) I've had a couple of Ql-17's and disliked them becuase of the small size. As I mentioned above I even felt the M3 was too small for my tastes. I won't even mention the CL I tried once... :D

Good luck finding what suit _you_ though as that is what really matters.

William
 
Oh, and the ZI looks to be amazing... If I wasn't broke I'd get it and the full lens set without pause. That's much closer to what I've been looking for than anything from Leica...

William
 
Joe, biased? I never noticed that! The Canons are wonderful machines though. A little heavier than the M series though. Note the Canons are screwmounts.
I myself only know the older M's, not the M4 versions and the M6.

Good luck hunting!
 
The M2 cost less than an M4. My M2 is quieter than the: Nikon RF's with its cloth shutters; Canon 7 with Stainless Steel shutter; Canon Vt with cloth shutter. It is close to the Retina IIIS with a Compur shutter. The finder is not prone to flare like the M4-2, M4P, and M6. The M2 has a Rewind Knob, removable take-up spool, and manually reset frame counter. If you prefer faster rewind, slotted take-up spool, and auto-reset, the M4 will run $300~$400 more than the M2.

Also remember that early M2's had a button rewind that had to be held down while rewinding. As a user, you will be better served by the "Lever Rewind" version. Some M2 cameras have a self-timer, most do not. Almost any user condition M2 will go for less than an M4.
 
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Decide if you want a meter or not first. The most affordable, with the convenient options Brian mentions would be an M4P/M42 without and M6 Classic with. All Leicas are excellent cameras, you won't make a bad choice.
 
I would go for either M6 or M6TTL as I don't need the hassle with an external meter. I had an M3 before and I still think it has the smoothest shutter I had ever experienced. But having a meter is much more important when you shoot in real life. I bought an M6TTL because the larger shutter speed dial is easier to use, and it moves in the same direction as the LED arrows in the viewfinder, which I find to be more intuitive.
 
Of the cameras you list, I have an M2 and an M6.

pros of the M2:
much less flare-prone rangefinder patch
less cluttered viewfinder (one set of framelines visible at a time)
build quality/feel/smoothness

pros of the M6:
built-in meter
easier film loading
auto frame counter reset
younger camera (more recently built)
 
The meter on the M6 can be both an asset and a liability. It's an asset because you don't need to mess with a separate meter. It's a liability if you don't understand reflective metering and therefore waste time, effort, and exposure accuracy by tweaking the exposure settings whenever the meter appears to indicate under or over exposure.

I don't exactly know why, but I would give up my M6 before I would give up my M2. Somehow the M2 seems about as nearly perfect as a mechanical device can get.
 
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I use the meter of the M6 or the VCII meter which is on the M2 or 3, like I would a handheld meter. I take one reading (usually off the pavement when doing street photography) set the camera, and then forget about the exposure setting until the light changes or I'm shooting in a diff situation such as shade instead of open skylight.

(I think that maybe some people picky enough to buy a Leica sometimes have a tendency to be too fussy when setting exposure?)
 
FrankS said:
I use the meter of the M6 or the VCII meter which is on the M2 or 3, like I would a handheld meter. I take one reading (usually off the pavement when doing street photography) set the camera, and then forget about the exposure setting until the light changes or I'm shooting in a diff situation such as shade instead of open skylight.

(I think that maybe some people picky enough to buy a Leica sometimes have a tendency to be too fussy when setting exposure?)
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Frank,

How do you like the VCII meter? I used to have a Leica meter for my M2 but I found it too large. I meter in a similar manner to you. I understand the zone system and meter and adjust based on the light and type of exposure I want. An in-camera meter is nice because you can see what you are actually metering on. Although this is not a problem in most situations. I would like to have a meter in the camera and the M6 is a real possibility. I have been hearing about finder flare with them. You have one. What do you think? How does the finder on the M6 compare to the M2?
 
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