M8 Firmware 1.10 Update

Honestly, I can't help but wonder how many of the issues that some of us are upset over including the IR sensitivity, are really unavoidable technical limitations, or the failure of management to motivate and deligate. The various departments (marketing, technical, and business/legal) seem to be acting autonomously in their own best interest, with no strong corporate leadership demanding accountability and cooperation. To further Ted's covertly political analogy, it's like when there's no orchestrated cooperation between intranational and international intelligence agencies for the good of national security, problems aren't discovered until something bad happens, and then everyone tries to say they didn't know and it couldn't have been helped.
 
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Ben you may be on to something here (assuming I read you correctly) in regard to the IR issue. While it is true the camera is sensitive to IR, when WB and color balance are correctly adjusted post process much of this issue disappears or lessens to an acceptable degree for the majority of images I shoot with my M8. This is true to such an extent that I do not feel it's necessary to resort to IR filters for most photographic subjects under a majority of lighting conditions. This will be solved by firmware to a greater degree then exists today however firmware should come sooner rather then later- if we do not have 1.10 my March then we can assume there is a hold up associated with the Jenoptic Leica relationship.

As to Leica's corporate culture, they seem like a small company tackling a huge undertaking under manned and under financed however I do not hold this against them. A huge corporate giant would never undertake such a challenge in the first place and provided Leica keeps us posted, is honest and makes steady progress, then all will be forgiven if not completely understood. At the end of the day I do love this camera and it is capable of the best image quality from the smallest possible size camera- it's just new and its issues are stressing and in the process revealing much about Leica AG.

I am compiling profiles I use in Lightroom from other M8 photogs I have contacted and profiles I have reworked. When I get this together I'll post them up for download to use in Lightroom for all interested. Also until firmware is available that addresses these issues it is a good idea to try this application as it solves a myriad of issues without being difficult to use and understand.
 
Here is a response I received from Leica Technical USA:

Good Afternoon,
The upgrade to version 1.10 has been planned for the month of February... With no specific date mentioned...
Albeit, everyone would like to see the update sooner rather than later... It will be posted on www.leicacamera.us
Thanks... Jim

James Butler / Technical Info
Leica Camera Inc.
1 Pearl Court/ Unit A / Allendale, NJ 07401
http://www.leica-camera.us/home/
 
Sailor Ted said:
While it is true the camera is sensitive to IR, when WB and color balance are correctly adjusted post process much of this issue disappears or lessens to an acceptable degree for the majority of images I shoot with my M8. This is true to such an extent that I do not feel it's necessary to resort to IR filters for most photographic subjects under a majority of lighting conditions. myriad of issues without being difficult to use and understand.
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As someone who has just spent the majority of one week "correcting" images contaminated with IR, I can say with 100% certainty that I would NEVER use the camera without an IR filter given the option. I love the M8, but to state that filters are not needed in most situations is plain lies. Not to go back over old ground, but it's beyond me how the IR issue got past both Leica or its initial testers. I had not read about the camera on the net before buying it (just read spec sheets etc with my Leica rep) and the first photo I took reeked of purple blacks. And worse, general colour casts are red / purple fall over entire images! Thankfully my money shots were mainly exposed with film and the best of the digi captures weren't beyond repair. My masterclass portfolio photo's, all printed at 8x12", are brilliant and the fixed digi shots (about 1/4 of them,)look, to my tastes, better than the ones taken with film.

I for one am eagerly awaiting FW1.10 and my free filters. From what I've read some German owners are reporting their filters have arrived already. It shouldn't be too long now. I'm not worried. I've seen no other problems, bar a f*a*i*n*t vertical band, and have every confidence Leica will release the upgrade in due course.

Tim
 
I'm guessing that you guys have not been in the software development business, right?

Delays are to be expected! All one can do is chill.

A standard illustration from the s/w business still is true: if you want a baby, you can put nine women on it for one month OR one woman on it for nine months. Which 'baby' do you want? (NO disrespect intended to anyone.)

Patience, folks. It's done when it's done.

-g
 
The IR filters are almost essential for many kinds of color work.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Profiles that 'fix' the IR issue are applying global changes that impact the grey balance of a file negatively. IR filters are a must if you want the best out of the camera color wise.
 
HAnkg said:
Profiles that 'fix' the IR issue are applying global changes that impact the grey balance of a file negatively. IR filters are a must if you want the best out of the camera color wise.
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Indeed.

If you are not a profesional photographer, who are expected to reproduce 'reality' with a certain accuracy, - like showing the new secretary general of the UN's suit as black, you can shoot without the filter and just forget that certain items turns up in the wrong colour in the M8 files.

This is hardly an issue on my part. I am not a profesional photographer, - nor do I intend to take pictures of the new UN secretary general, who I don't like, but green dots, blips and stripes are issues for just anyone. And so is the problem with the camera falling dead with no possibility for the user to blow life into it again. And so is the rediculous price for the M8 camera. - But then again; the M8 is the only digital rangefinder to be around for the next two years or so...
 
Olsen,
With all due respect, why are you beating the green striped horse? That has been fixed as of the first generation M8 recall, subsequent manufacturer runs of the M8, and firmware version 1.09. This is exactly what is wrong with certain posts- Leica fixes or addresses an issue and some people choose to ignore the fix and continue to beat the long dead horse- in fact Leica already killed this one for you Olsen.

The real issue this camera has is firmware:
1. To solve the “freeze up issue” (assuming they are not common EFR)
2. To better select white balance.
3. To control cyan shift on wide-angle coded lenses when 486 filters are employed.
4. And another firmware fix that addresses issues 1.10 will create- rinse and repeat.
5. If Leica has lost it’s ability to write code for firmware fixes then this is the REAL ISSUE.

The other issue is IR shift and if you don’t like filters then get a different camera- continuing to beat this issue is beating *** (everyone know about filters and anyone still crying about them are simply unable to accept the reality of this situation and must get over it, go back to film, or get a Canon or a Nikon.)

T
 
Sailor Ted said:
Sean and crew,
At Photokina Leica announced that they would be aquireing Sinar from Jenoptic- this was Sept. 30.

On Friday November 24 DP Review prints this from Leica:
"When using lenses from 16 to 35mm, we suggest opting for the 6-bit coded ones, in order to prevent a color offset towards the edges. No disadvantages must be expected for the images when the LEICA M8 is equipped with the latest firmware (from 1.10; available as of early December 2006)." This is also posted on Leica's website.

On December 13 The Jenoptik Group rescinds the sale of its 51 percent of the shares in Sinar AG to Leica Camera AG.

The fact Leica announced a firmware upgrade for early December and the silence regarding said upgrade following the collapse of the buy out seems hardly a coincidence so...

Where is the past due 1.10 firmware from "Leica?" Sean do you have any insider knowledge? I feel sure that if such a firmware upgrade existed Leica would have it out with their beta testers (not their M8 customers- wise guys : )
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This is a bump as the deadline as quoted by Leica is fast approaching. If they do not have 1.10 by the end of this month then they need to come clean as to why.
 
Grober said:
I'm guessing that you guys have not been in the software development business, right?

Delays are to be expected! All one can do is chill.

A standard illustration from the s/w business still is true: if you want a baby, you can put nine women on it for one month OR one woman on it for nine months. Which 'baby' do you want? (NO disrespect intended to anyone.)

Patience, folks. It's done when it's done.

-g
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I would probably take the nine women and let the baby look after itself...:D

Woops, let's hope Patricia doesn't see this post:eek:
 
If it is truly that important to you to know exactly what is going on with the firmware situation, I think that you should get in contact with Leica Germany. Find out what, if any, actual statements they made about when the firmware was going to be ready and ask them when they expect to release it. If it is not going to be released by the time they originally said (if they ever had an official statment), then ask them why it was delayed. There is no point gnashing your teeth on an internet forum. Leica is not going to read this, particularly not Leica Germany. Call or write to someone there and you are likely to get a satisfactory answer. Most of them speak English if you do not speak German. Just because someone told Sean Reid that it was going to be February does not mean that that person had any control of the actual release. What probably happened is that someone in marketing at Leica USA told him that, and it was based on a "best guess" format. The only people who can say the actual date are the people developing the firmware...they will not release it until it is complete. The people in charge of that are in Germany.
 
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It's one thing to say that software development inherently takes time, but it's something completely different to put a new product line in jeopardy by sourcing development of the core software and then let your relationship with the developer go sour. That's mismanagement, most likely resulting from the number one cause of all corporate blunders--rushing to market.

Any company that relies on third parties for business critical services has two options: (1) be your supplier's BFF, or (2) have an airtight contract up front with the source code in escrow, sufficient rights to documentation, a competent b-team of developers and the ability to force knowledge transfer. Anything less is flying by the seat of your pants. Sometimes flying by the seat of your pants is OK, as long as you take off and land. Seems like DMR crashed, so....
 
StuartR said:
There is no point gnashing your teeth on an internet forum. Leica is not going to read this, particularly not Leica Germany.
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Leica reads these forums very carefully, it has been hinted at in the last LFI and the owner of the company even posted here some time ago. Be assured that what is written here is read in Solms. They would be stupid not to.
 
I find it hard to believe that Leica has the resources to hire someone to read our drivel (no offence to us!) day in and day out. Perhaps someone checks in on occasion but I sincerely doubt that Leica hangs on every word uttered at RFF or photo.net...
 
It is because I precisely believe Leica follows this site with a fine toothcomb that I resurrected this post. Let's see how fast they get this ball rolling- my guess? Very fast indeed.
 
I'll take that bet. Not that the firmware won't be out by the end of February, but that there is any clear evidence that Leica reads this thread. I am guessing that they have more important things to worry about. I don't mean that to be mean or condescending, just that...well, c'mon, this is a internet forum...a playground for camera nerds.
 
StuartR said:
I'll take that bet. Not that the firmware won't be out by the end of February, but that there is any clear evidence that Leica reads this thread. I am guessing that they have more important things to worry about. I don't mean that to be mean or condescending, just that...well, c'mon, this is a internet forum...a playground for camera nerds.
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What was that bet?? I'd like to collect my bottle of wine ;)


acmprojekt said:
Hi Mark, I'm Andreas Kaufmann, managing Director of ACM Projektentwicklung Salzburg, Austria. As ACM Projektentwicklung is owned by the family Kaufmann and is not a Private Equity Fund, a Venture Fund or whatever fund, our intention is a longterm industrial strategy. We want help to create a Leica Camera which is able to produce and sell exciting future products. Good products and satisfied customers enable a good future for Leica.

You're absolutely right, the patient is recovering, and we should not forget that Leica Camera never stopped spending quite a lot of money for research and development.

Contrary to public belief Leica has a track record on digital cameras for ten years, which means the M8 is just a necessary consequence. The M8 will be a superior and unique camera, and there are other interesting things in the pipeline.
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