Sauli Särkkä
Member
What do you use to clean things up, to get stuck grease/oil to loosen up, to clean up old light-seal materials, etc.? I use isopropanol, but it seems that most people use lighter fluid a.k.a. Ronsonol a.k.a. naphta.
I've been looking at the insides of these fun little rangefinder cameras for something like a month or two and I'm having lots of fun learning the basics of fine mechanics and figuring out the mechanisms and simple electronics that make these babies click. Now, I'd love to hear from you what you feel is the best solvent for the job in general and if there are special cases where one or the other is "the best".
As for lubrication, I just received a bottle of Fulcrum Oil (watch oil, vintage-looking bottle and package) that should last be years and years to come. In addition to this stuff, I'm going to need some lithium grease at some point, if I'm going to enter the scary world of helical cleanup and such..
-Sale
I've been looking at the insides of these fun little rangefinder cameras for something like a month or two and I'm having lots of fun learning the basics of fine mechanics and figuring out the mechanisms and simple electronics that make these babies click. Now, I'd love to hear from you what you feel is the best solvent for the job in general and if there are special cases where one or the other is "the best".
As for lubrication, I just received a bottle of Fulcrum Oil (watch oil, vintage-looking bottle and package) that should last be years and years to come. In addition to this stuff, I'm going to need some lithium grease at some point, if I'm going to enter the scary world of helical cleanup and such..
-Sale
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
There is no "ultimate solvent" - dirt, glues and greases are not all soluble in one single substance (short of those which would dissolve the entire camera). If any, my basic solvent is water with a touch of detergent.
Sevo
Sevo
Gumby
Veteran
That's why the solutions used for cleaning watches and clocks (not too different from mechanical shutters) are blends of dirt/grease fighters: ammonia, oleic acid and detergent.
If using a cleaner with a significant water content (which describes most alcohol solutions and 'environmentally-friendly' wath/clock solutions)... careful drying is very important.
Ultrasonic cleaning is another method not considered in the survey, but should be in the repairman's repertoire.
btgc
Veteran
Naphtha - it smells like a victory! I like this smell 
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Isopropyl alcohol for most jobs, naphtha for extra greasy situations or where you want to leave a light film of lubrication without resorting to dirt/dust attracting oil.
ferider
Veteran
Isopropyl for most stuff (or Vodka).
Don't forget vinegar to remove oxides.
Then there is aceton (nail polish remover) for tougher dirt as well. Don't clean plastic with it though.
Roland.
Don't forget vinegar to remove oxides.
Then there is aceton (nail polish remover) for tougher dirt as well. Don't clean plastic with it though.
Roland.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
What I use will vary with what I'm trying to clean...I try to use the least harsh solvent /cleanser as the job requires...I've learned this the hard way...
Being in the Printing Industry I've been around some tough solvents so naptha/Ronsonol don't really scare me...I do wear gloves...I'm not that crazy...yet...
Being in the Printing Industry I've been around some tough solvents so naptha/Ronsonol don't really scare me...I do wear gloves...I'm not that crazy...yet...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Trike (trichloroethylene) is the most aggressive. Ether is good too. After that: naptha. After that (least unpleasant, and best to use unless you NEED the others) 190 proof potable ethanol. I've never found much use for propanol aka rubbing alcohol.
Tashi delek,
R.
Tashi delek,
R.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
"Detergents are by far the safest. Any camera which needs a major degreaser, after one of those "buttery smooth wind" grease jobs available from CLA-ers is probably toast. Sell it on eBay and say how smooth it is to wind."
yes, no brand new camera ever came out of the box 'just 'a drippin' with oil.
yes, no brand new camera ever came out of the box 'just 'a drippin' with oil.
mooge
Well-known
uh, whatwhat? Naptha is a brain killer? I use that Ronson stuff... it smells bad...
no mention here...
http://www.cooperbooth.com/datasheets/160606.pdf
and about WD-40, if you let it separate (put it in a jar, let it sit), it's supposedly a good light oil. there's parrafin or something in there that's the camera killer. makes self timers and slow speed escapememts run...
Camera repair is very fun! Last week I got two 'dead' Leicaflex SLs- fungus, shutter jams, rust, drop damage- it's all there! very exciting anyways... until I figured out what I have to pull just to get the shutter out. I hate you, Leica.
(by the by, the cheats are here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=im...=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#PPA48,M1 )
cheers!
Dragunov
no mention here...
http://www.cooperbooth.com/datasheets/160606.pdf
and about WD-40, if you let it separate (put it in a jar, let it sit), it's supposedly a good light oil. there's parrafin or something in there that's the camera killer. makes self timers and slow speed escapememts run...
Camera repair is very fun! Last week I got two 'dead' Leicaflex SLs- fungus, shutter jams, rust, drop damage- it's all there! very exciting anyways... until I figured out what I have to pull just to get the shutter out. I hate you, Leica.
(by the by, the cheats are here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=im...=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#PPA48,M1 )
cheers!
Dragunov
puderse
Established
Most of the shutters I have cleaned run best dry! That is after several changes of camp stove fuel (naptha) and lots of swirling and waiting. Acetone takes everything off including paint and plastic. Don't use around electronics or sync contacts! Nail polish remover has oils to keep their cuticles soft. Everclear (100% grain) is useful for many things! After soaking don't throw it out just add Coke and drink. No environmental disposal problems! Any oil just picks little bits of west Texas as they come blowing by!
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Isopropyl alcohol for removing tar (pine pollen, cigarette residue, deteriorated light seals, and etcetera).
Naptha for removing grease and oil (CLAing shutters and fingerprints on lenses, and etcetera).
50/50 mix of drugstore hydrogen peroxide and grocery store ammonia for removing lens fungus.
Acetone for removing paint, some glues and really heavy dried grease (not on plastic).
Distilled white vinegar for removing mold.
Distilled water for pretty much everything else.
Naptha for removing grease and oil (CLAing shutters and fingerprints on lenses, and etcetera).
50/50 mix of drugstore hydrogen peroxide and grocery store ammonia for removing lens fungus.
Acetone for removing paint, some glues and really heavy dried grease (not on plastic).
Distilled white vinegar for removing mold.
Distilled water for pretty much everything else.
wolves3012
Veteran
The ultimate solvent, technically, is water since it will dissolve anything to some extent.
On a more practical basis I've used xylene for stubborn greases and oils, lighter fluid (naptha etc) is actually a light fraction petroleum and can be useful but often leaves a residue. Isopropanol is good for optics, nicotine and "lightweight" duties but it really isn't a solvent for greases or oils.
Trichlorethylene ("trike") is banned here in the uk (AFAIK) but it's a suspected carcinogen and a pretty powerful narcotic so I'd only use it outdoors and not on plastics or alloys (it attacks brass and aluminium). As for ether - it has an autoignition temperature so low that a naked light-bulb can set if off so no thanks. It's also so volatile it evaporates before you can usefully remove what it's dissolved and it forms explosive peroxides if not stored in darkness!
Acetone is also highly flammable and highly volatile so rather limited - good for "welding" plastics though (if you can get it in pure form, not nail-varnish remover)!
Ammonia and peroxides are a bit nasty stuff, never felt the need. Vinegar I've used on glass and I don't see why it should remove lens coatings (and my experience says it doesn't). Vinegar will attack some metals though, aluminium (as will ammonia) especially.
And yes, I do have high qualifications in chemistry and many years industrial experience, before someone says I don't know what I'm on about...
On a more practical basis I've used xylene for stubborn greases and oils, lighter fluid (naptha etc) is actually a light fraction petroleum and can be useful but often leaves a residue. Isopropanol is good for optics, nicotine and "lightweight" duties but it really isn't a solvent for greases or oils.
Trichlorethylene ("trike") is banned here in the uk (AFAIK) but it's a suspected carcinogen and a pretty powerful narcotic so I'd only use it outdoors and not on plastics or alloys (it attacks brass and aluminium). As for ether - it has an autoignition temperature so low that a naked light-bulb can set if off so no thanks. It's also so volatile it evaporates before you can usefully remove what it's dissolved and it forms explosive peroxides if not stored in darkness!
Acetone is also highly flammable and highly volatile so rather limited - good for "welding" plastics though (if you can get it in pure form, not nail-varnish remover)!
Ammonia and peroxides are a bit nasty stuff, never felt the need. Vinegar I've used on glass and I don't see why it should remove lens coatings (and my experience says it doesn't). Vinegar will attack some metals though, aluminium (as will ammonia) especially.
And yes, I do have high qualifications in chemistry and many years industrial experience, before someone says I don't know what I'm on about...
wolves3012
Veteran
Out of interest Roger, did you know that trichlorethylene actually penetrates rubber and many plastics fairly easily? You're actually better off without gloves, at least it can evaporate off your skin. Best keep your fingers out though, if possible!
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I believe the autoignition flashpoint for ether is 170 C. But that still is very low and ether is a real problem source of fires.
Earlier in life, I flew control line model airplanes competitively in the speed events. I blended some exotic fuels. Propylene oxide adds a extra punch to standard nitrometnane. Other engines used fuel containing ether and amyl nitrate. I always had some exotic stuff around the shop but always considered ether to be the most hazardous.
wolves3012
Veteran
Ether has a flashpoint of -45C and an autoignition temperature of 170C. Flashpoint is the lowest temperature it can create a flammable vapour, autoignition temperature is the point at which it ignites without external ignition sources. Compare to 500C for butane (lighter gas - not petrol, gas). Petrol is only around 250C though.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
Yes. I tested the surgical gloves I use first. No sign of short-term penetration (I put some in a finger of a pair of gloves for a minute or two) or degradation (I let a cut-off piece of glove soak for a while to test the latter). But I also keep my fingers out of the stuff: tweezers or needle-nose pliers, or (more usually) pour the trike on and off in a glass container used for shutter cleaning. The gloves are only in case of splashing.
I bought a litre about 5 years ago and still have more than half of it left. It's not something I use lightly. But blind terror of the stuff -- I'm not accusing you of that, by the way -- is as irrational as sloshing it around as if it were harmless.
Personally I worry more about pyrogallol crystals.
Cheers,
Roger
Fotch
Man with a RF Camera
Make sure the old watch oil is not rancid, especially if its "natural oil".
JohnTF
Veteran
Roger, 111 Trichloroethylene was marketed as a safe replacement for Carbon Tet. Carbon Tetrachloride was sold for fire extinguishers and as a cleaning fluid. Both dry quickly and leave very little residue. The latter was essentially banned from common usage as it really was immediately dangerous, e.g. one exposure could cause liver damage, and put someone I know in the hospital when he sprayed it inside of a garage to put out a fire, and it took a few years to find out that the replacement was not so good as well.
That said, I have walked in to a few shops in which shutters were being repaired, and always noted the smell of the Trichloroethylene. You can do a fast and sloppy fix on many leaf shutters with just slopping a bit on the shutter, which may last for six months. Maybe they were actually tearing the shutters down and cleaning the parts. ;-)
Isopropanol -- if you are using it, you need the lab stuff, anhydrous, 99% or so, not the stuff you might find in the average pharmacy. I have a bottle marked "Lens Cleaner" and we used it for microscope lenses.
Denatured alcohol is normally 95% ethyl alcohol with a small amount of methyl to make it non-potable, we used a lot for spirit master (ditto) machines.
I have heard that ethyl ether is not particularly bad for you, but you could end up taking a quick nap. I think it may be found in the winter car starting sprays from the old days. It is dangerous to store, and once the can is opened, it can over time form explosive compounds which can detonate. Am not sure about petroleum ether.
I also kept a bottle of Xylene, (Toluene) pretty powerful stuff, think it is the solvent in airplane glue. It has a cork and screw top.
You have such nice weather, which is a hint to use most of these sparingly and outdoors?
One you may wish to use extra care with, is the 111 Trichloroethylene, mostly because it vaporizes so easily. I think there is a replacement for it.
I have also used Naptha as a cleaner, took the grease out of fabric very nicely.
Am not too sure about the dangers of each in terms of fire and low flash points. One gallon of gas = energy of one case of dynamite and is arguably more dangerous. Ethyl ether is extremely flammable. I would just keep most far away from sources of ignition. Probably reading the labels, and if you can find a Flynn Scientific Catalog, they have written a huge section on safety when using chemicals.
Lacquer thinner is an alcohol, smells as if it has amyl alcohol.
Am going to guess that many communities have rules and laws about a lot of these. You cannot legally use Lacquer in California, or so Leno passed along, even for his cars.
Am pretty sure most here are a bit cautious, but I have seen guys clean up paint brushes in Gas, pour it down a storm sewer, while smoking.
Just a few things I have accumulated, be careful out there.
Regards, John
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JohnTF
Veteran
Personally I worry more about pyrogallol crystals.
Cheers,
Roger[/quote]
Roger, were the old formulations of B&W print paper high in cadmium? I heard that all were reformulated a while back, was it mainly an environmental concern, or health?
Afraid I had trouble keeping fingers entirely out of the soup. Stained them a few times with pyro doing some odd work with Ethol developers I got for free.
Regards, John
Cheers,
Roger[/quote]
Roger, were the old formulations of B&W print paper high in cadmium? I heard that all were reformulated a while back, was it mainly an environmental concern, or health?
Afraid I had trouble keeping fingers entirely out of the soup. Stained them a few times with pyro doing some odd work with Ethol developers I got for free.
Regards, John