Next step(s) for my lens kit..

[Stephen G]

I am currently shooting a Kobalux 21/2.8 on my R-D1.
I like it for my 35mm film equivalent, however, now it is time to expand into a non-wide lens. So I want to build a lens kit starting with the 21 I already have.

I started to look at various 35mm lenses (voigt. 35/1.2, voigt. 35/1.7 *maybe* zeiss/leica 35/2.0, but I really want speed).
My idea was that once I bought the 35, I would expand on to a 50..
I would grab a 50 in the f2.0-f2.5 range (voigt. 50/2.5, older summicrons)
This would give me a 21/35/50 kit

Then a second option came to mind...
Since I like speed, and the 35/1.2 is large+heavy, what if I went with the voigt. 40/1.4 for my next lens.
Once I get a 40mm, a 50mm would seem too close, so I would instead get a 75mm (the voigt 75/2.5 due to cost/size/weight).
This would give me a 21/40/75 kit

My questions-
- On the R-D1, how do you feel 35mm and 40mm lenses perform as 'film 50mm equivalents'?
- On the R-D1, how would you compare a 21/35/50 kit versus a 21/40/75 kit?
- And of course, any feedback on the R-D1 and the particular lenses mentioned above?

Thanks in advance for reading all this, and any responses!

 

[Johnmcd]

I only have a 40 Nokton and I think it is outstanding. On a R-D1 it is 60mm but for the life of me it just doesn't feel that long. I think it makes a fine '50' substitute.

I've just bought a J8 50 and a I61 55. I'm looking forward to seeing how the R-D1 handles that.

Some people have trouble with the 75 (and above) and focussing but I can't comment on that as I've never used one. I will keep my eye out for a cheap Russian just to see though.

If all things were equal, I'd probably go 21/40/75.

For what it is worth my next will probably be a Ultron 28 1.9 as I like to shoot low light, wide open.

BTW, what's the Kobalux 21/2.8 like? Any images to post?

Cheers,

John

 

[dacaccia]

Hi,
Lacking a 35mm, I am using a Leica-C 2/40 (bundle with the CL), together with the 50 frame, and a Leica-M 2/50. Both are wonderful lenses, as 50 and 75 aequivalent. (On my M6, the 50mm and 75mm are my favourite lenses.) The 40mm has an outstanding quality, very clear, as the 50mm does.

I would recommend you one of those lenses - you easily get them via eBay. The C-40 which is normally sold together with the CL, very often comes solo now (maybe because the CL is broken).

Cheers,
dacaccia

 

[noimmunity]

I've enjoyed using the 35/1.2 on the RD-1. I actually think the weight of the lens balances nicely with that of the camera body, since the body itself is pretty heavy and has tendency to backtilt with small lenses. FWIW, I had the 40/1.4 and didn't like either the ergonomics (tab without serrated edges on the rest of the focus ring) nor the bokeh. The Nokton 35 on the other hand is great in both respects. It turns out to be the lens I use the most with my RD-1 so far. A lot of people do like the Nokton 40, however, so it may be a matter of personal taste. The best thing if possible would be to try out the feel of different lenses on the RD-1 and see which fits right for you.
I use a chrome Nikkor 85/2 regularly on the RD-1 and find it works well. Again, another heavy lens that I feel balances well.
Of course, it's the devil in me to suggest it, but have you also considered a 21/28/50/85-90 combo for a little more range? :angel: You could plan the 50 for your next purchase (speed is easy to find here and the distance between your 21 and 50 would be cool), and then go on to the 28 and 85-90 (in no particular order) to fill in the gaps after that. Then eventually add a 15 or 12...😀 . Anyway, the point being that you might want to expand again in the future beyond three lenses, and if so, it could save trouble in the future to plan around it now.

 

[LCT]

...On the R-D1, how do you feel 35mm and 40mm lenses perform as 'film 50mm equivalents'?...

As cropped 35 and 40 essentially. Lenses don't loose their character on the R-D1.

...On the R-D1, how would you compare a 21/35/50 kit versus a 21/40/75 kit?...

- 21 or 21? 21! 😉 but you'll miss a 28 soon or late.
- 35 or 40? Matter of tastes. If you prefer wides, 35 is the way to go. For medium to long distance subjects, the 35mm frame lines of the R-D1 are more accurate with 40mm than 35mm lenses though.
- 50 of 75? 50 to me. I like much my Summicron 75 but there is a 50mm frame in the R-D1's VF and i need the 50 x 1.5 = 75mm field of view personally. Also due to the short base length of the rangefinder it is easier to focus a 50 at f/1.4 than a 75 at f/2 by far.

 

[sonwolf]

Making a decision regarding the 35mm vs. 40mm conundrum depends on which features and qualities are most important to you. I would first take your R-D1 out into the world and look at the 35mm frame lines. If these framelines seem slightly tight for your images, you will be happier with a 35 than a 40. Considering that the 35 1.2 Nokton is large, heavy, and more than twice the price of the 35 1.7 Ultron, I would only purchase the Nokton if you really need an aperture faster than 1.7 or like the feel of large, heavy lenses. Keep in mind, using a 21mm 2.8 lens has not prepared you for the difficulty of focusing a 35mm rangefinder lens at less than f/2. If the narrower view of the 40mm lens does not constrain you, the Nokton has the advantage of being smaller, faster, and slightly cheaper than the 35mm Ultron. On the potentially negative side, many people complain about its bokeh and having to use a focus tab. My personal choice was the 35mm Ultron, the lens is relatively fast and small, does not have a focus tab, and is moderately priced. So far, I have been very pleased with the results.

I also own the 50mm Nokton and 75mm Heliar. The image quality of the 50 is definitely superior to the 75, but in general I have been pleased with the 75. Once again, I would look at the 50mm framelines in the R-D1. A 50mm lens will capture an image slightly larger than the framelines. A 75mm view will cover about ¾ of the 50mm view. Decide which works best for you. If you decide on the 75, consider purchasing a magnifying eyepiece to assist with focus.

 

[Stephen G]

BTW, what's the Kobalux 21/2.8 like? Any images to post?

I love the kobalux 21/2.8

heres links to 3 shots on flickr (you can also go to my account, choose tags, and select the kobalux tag)

http://flickr.com/photos/xx573v3xx/2147770795/
http://flickr.com/photos/xx573v3xx/1547838287/
http://flickr.com/photos/xx573v3xx/1548703890/

 

[Stephen G]

Thanks, I started to walk around my apartment, trying to replicate shoots I wanted to make, but couldnt with my 21mm in the past.
The 35mm, used tightly (as the 40mm uses), and something tighter than the 50mm lines (like say a 75mm.. or even a 90mm), started to look tempting.

If you decide on the 75, consider purchasing a magnifying eyepiece to assist with focus.

Does the 75/2.5 really need focus magnification when shot wide open? What about stopped down to 4.0? I am not even considering the 75 summilux due to size/weight/cost. I formerly had a 50/1.5 on the R-D1 that I found difficult to focus close up. For that matter, how difficult would a 90/4.0 be to focus?
Is there a calculator around that says 75/2.5 is equivalent to focussing a 50/__ or a 90/__, and so on? I think I have seen something that gives you suggested minimum baselength/magnification?

For reference, I am not totally inept at focussing due to my 21/2.8 usage- In my M2/M6 days I shot with a 50/1.5 and 85/1.9. In my SLR days I even had a 105/1.8.. My favorite stops always tending to be wide open.

I should have mentioned earlier, but now I am thinking more of how I want to use these lenses..
I am looking to do some close-up photography. This would be one of the main uses of the longer end of the range of lenses I am looking at.
Certainly I understand this is more challenging on RFs, but I am talking macro in the range of say - having just a persons hand in the frame.
I see that the 50mm lines @ 1m away would be too wide for this. I am going to look around for some macro frame coverage calculators to see how the 75mm and 90mm would compare in that respect.

Also, I am going to try to get to Photo Village in the next week or so to play with the 35/1.2, 35/1.7, 40/1.4, 50/2.5, 75/2.5, and 90/3.5...

 

[Stephen G]

Using this-
http://photo.net/learn/making-photographs/lens

I am starting to think 90mm might be more neccessary than 75mm for my hand-macro scenario..

 

[sonwolf]

Does the 75/2.5 really need focus magnification when shot wide open? What about stopped down to 4.0?

The magnifier is not required for the 75mm lens but it can certainly increase the likelihood of focus accuracy. I do not own a 90mm but the general consensus on RFF is a magnifier is strongly recommended at this focal length. Several factors affect the accuracy of focus. The most obvious is the wider the aperture and closer the focus distance; the greater the likelihood of error. Rich Cuttler provides a very detailed explanation of the R-D1’s rangefinder accuracy limits on his website http://www.richcutler.co.uk/r-d1/r-d1_05.htm . The 75mm’s limit is F/2.0, fairly close to Heliar’s maximum aperture of F/2.5. In comparison, the 90mm Lanthar’s F/3.5 maximum pushes up against R-D1’s absolute limit of F/3.4.

Beyond mathematical precession, the quality of a photographer’s eyesight also effects accuracy. Like an optometrist’s eye chart, some people can read very small letters, while others cannot. The magnifier is analogous to making the letters larger, easier, and more accurate to read. The focus target also potentially affects the accuracy of focus. Focusing on a straight, hard edge line is generally more accurate than soft shapes because optimal focus alignment is easier to judge. In my experience, the magnifier really helps when I need to achieve focus quickly in a fluid, changing situation, and when a sharp edge line is absent.

 

[Stephen G]

Thanks, this is exactly the aperture@focal length precision chart I was looking for.

 

[foto_fool]

I have the Avenon 21/2.8 Type 3 but frankly don't shoot it much on the R-D1.

The lens in my kit that spends 75% of the time on the Epson is the Konica 35/2 UC Hexanon in LTM (w/a CV adapter of course).

I have shot a number of 50's on this body and by far prefer the ZM 50/1.5 Sonnar C. I have obtained very similar results to the ZM with its ancestor the CZJ 50/1.5 Sonnar T, but prefer the newer lens for its short focus throw and better glass.

I recently picked up a Canon 55/1.2 FL professionally-modified for M-mount and this is a really cool combo on the R-D1.

As for longer lenses, I don't really care for how the 75mm Summilux handles or focuses on the R-D1, but I have had surprisingly good results with an old, beat-up 90mm Elmarit - I think maybe the DOF with this lens even at f2.8 must make up for any focus errors on my part. However I use the 135mm equivalent focal length maybe 1%-2% of the time.

So it's just my preference, but my R-D1 kit is essentially a 2-lens system at 53mm and 75mm.

- John

 

[FranZ]

Nokton 1.4 40mm very nice lens.

Nokton 1.4 40mm very nice lens.

Stephan, It all depends on what yoy want to do with it.
I use the following CV lenses: 28 1.9 ASP Ultron, 35 2.5 pancake II, 40 1.4 Nokton and the 50 1.5 Nokton on my R-D1s.
I use my Epson, next to my DSLR for 2 purposes: natural light indoor people photography and as a small lightweight outdoors camera when I dont want to cary a lot of weight, and wat to be discreet.

For my indoor people photography I use the Ultron as my "wide" lens since I don't like external viewfinders and I use the 50 mm Nokton for low light portraits.

I use the 35 mm and the 40 mm the most as general purpose and "walk around" lenses, since they are small, inconspicuous and fit in the Epson case. The 40 mm is a bit "tighter" in the 35 mm framelines. I plan to dedicate the 35 this summer with an IR filter for IR photography. I estimate that I use the 40mm more than the other 3 combined. Nice lens, but for portrait purposes the 50mm has a nicer Bokeh.

Although the 40 and 50 mm seem very close in focal length, they are very different lenses and with their respective 60 and 75 mm behaviour and fit a different purpose.

I contemplate on the 75 mm Heliar as next purchase for more distance but, on the other hand I don't want to swith to much between the lenses and using a single fixed focus lens on my RF is part of the reason for buying into the RF in the first place, another way of photography.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stephen G]

Just to follow up..
Picked up the CV 40/1.4 @ Photovillage on the way home tonight.
Already shot/loaded a few samples, very pleased with so far.
Planning an all day outing tomorrow, so it will certainly be putting it to the test.

Also picked up a 90/4.0 Elmar-C .. so looks like I'm done for now.