Nikon S2 slow speed escapement not working

[jonmanjiro]

I have a Nikon S2 that is firing correctly (to my ear) from 1/50 through to 1/1000 and *was* firing intermittently at the slower speeds until I removed, cleaned, and reinstalled the slow speed escapement. Now the T,B, and 1 second through to 1/30 settings are all firing like the camera is set to B. Have I messed something up when putting the slow speed escapement back in? It seems like I just need to re-cock or re-spring a part somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

In the first photo below, I know that the pin on the underside of the slow speed escapement slots into the fork connected to the shutter release (marked 1.) and the tab at the back of the slow speed escapement goes behind the fork above the slow speed escapement (marked 2.) but I'm not sure about the positioning of the gear marked 3.? Also, is there something I need to re-cock or set under the shutter speed dials?

Its been a while since I tried fixing a camera and I'm a bit rusty. Any help appreciated!

 

[Erik van Straten]

Open up another S2 just to study the positioning of the gear.

Erik.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I would have already done so if I had another S2 on hand, but unfortunately I don't.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I would have already done so if I had another S2 on hand, but unfortunately I don't.

FWIW I remember a friend telling about how he installed a slow speed governor from a Nikon F2 into a Nikon S and was surprised that it fitted and worked without any modifications. That leads me to think that removing, cleaning, and reinstalling a slow speed governor from a Nikon S2 should be pretty much the same as on a Nikon F and F2, and it's no doubt a lot easier to find information on how to do the work on an F or F2 than an S2.

A quote from yourself from last year.

Erik.

 

[jonmanjiro]

FWIW I remember a friend telling about how he installed a slow speed governor from a Nikon F2 into a Nikon S and was surprised that it fitted and worked without any modifications. That leads me to think that removing, cleaning, and reinstalling a slow speed governor from a Nikon S2 should be pretty much the same as on a Nikon F and F2, and it's no doubt a lot easier to find information on how to do the work on an F or F2 than an S2.

A quote from yourself from last year.

Erik.

Yes I remember the quote.

I have a repair book that covers the S, SP, F, and F2, but none of these cameras appear to have gear 3. indicated in the first photo above and it also seems like I've unintentionally disconnected something, so I'm still stuck.

 

[Erik van Straten]

I have the official S2 service manual from 1955. I will look up the relevant parts.

A little patience please.

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Erik.

 

[goliathus]

Jon, I just remembered that one of my Nikon Rangefinder mook book has a S2 repair manual in its section. Please understand, I can't read Japanese, so not sure this will help you. But luckily I found some close up photos of the same part that you shared on above. Cheers!

 

[Highway 61]

From my experience with an S3 slow speeds escapement with which I was in the same kind of trouble, it all depends on how the whole slow speeds geartrain unit is positioned. Move it forth and back while freeing it by unscrewing the 464 screws a little bit until it works well, then secure the 464 screws again.

EDIT : this matches the (4) in the repair manual provided by Erik...

😉

 

[jonmanjiro]

Erik and Park, thanks! That's a big help.

Nicolas, I didn't have any luck with changing the position where the slow speed escapement is screwed down, so I'll have to delve a little deeper when I have another crack at it tonight!

 

[bence8810]

Jon - you didn't allow much shelf-time to that Nikon - got right to it!

Good luck,
Ben

 

[Highway 61]

Erik and Park, thanks! That's a big help.

Nicolas, I didn't have any luck with changing the position where the slow speed escapement is screwed down, so I'll have to delve a little deeper when I have another crack at it tonight!

Sometimes the trick is to remove the escapement unit again, then to make it work a little bit with your fingers, then to reinstall it...

Some of them may need more than a simple cleaning and relube if there is much corrosion on their gears. Did you try to have it soak in an ultrasonic tube so that it works super even before being re-lubed ?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Jon - you didn't allow much shelf-time to that Nikon - got right to it!

Good luck,
Ben

Yep, no messing about! 😎
Thanks Ben!

 

[jonmanjiro]

Here's an update:

I’ve just realised that the slow shutter speeds all work when I set the upper shutter speed dial to a little bit off the 1/30 speed setting in the direction of the X setting.

But if I set the upper shutter speed dial to the actual 1/30 notch, regardless of the lower shutter speed dial setting, the shutter fires like it is set to B.

Hmmm well at least I’ve narrowed down the problem.

 

[dave lackey]

Jon, good luck on solving the problem. You are both way more gifted and braver than me!😱

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Jon,
I know next to nothing about the Nikon rangefinders (I've decided I want a Contax, personally). But I do have a decent library of service and repair books and I've noticed that in some of your photos the top cover is off the body. I've checked the Tomosy books for you. One of them has an article about the Nikon S. Is that close enough to the S2? I have no idea. 😉

From the paragraph about the shutter, I quote:

"Be aware that the shutter doesn't work properly with the top cover off due to the fact that the slow-speed setting lever defaults to "T". With the top on, if the slow shutter speeds don't engage, the slow-speed eccentric or the setting lever may be out of position."
​

Now, T and B are of course, different settings, but not so different. I reckon it's worth a shot. Let me know how you get on, maybe it's the problem?
Cheers,
Brett

 

[Erik van Straten]

Maybe this helps:

Erik.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Thanks Brett. I don't think the S2 and S are the same in that regard though. Under the top they're quite different cameras.
Edit: I just put the top plate back on and tested the shutter speeds, and no change unfortunately. The camera behaves the same with the top plate on or off.

Thanks again Erik. You actually posted those instructions in your earlier post, and I have tried positioning the slow speed escapement in slightly different positions to no avail. The lower shutter speed dial does work properly at all positions including T when the upper shutter speed dial is set as follows, so I don't think my problem can be fixed by adjusting as described in (5) and (6) in those instructions.

But when the upper shutter speed dial is set as follows, all speeds on the lower shutter speed dial act like they're set to B.

So perhaps I need to reset the B setting... have you got the instructions in your user manual to reset the B setting, Erik?

 

[jonmanjiro]

FWIW here's the spot in the camera where the slow speed escapement goes:

And here's the slow speed escapement after several rounds of cleaning:

 

[jonmanjiro]

After a bit more messing around, I've concluded that the shutter speeds on the lower shutter speed dial (1 to 1/30) are actually working fine and my problem is caused by the cam on the underside of the upper shutter speed dial not being in the correct position at 1/30 to activate the lower shutter speed dial. Instead the camera thinks its set to B. So it appears I need to adjust the position of the cam on the underside of the upper shutter speed dial in relation to the actual upper shutter speed dial. I have no idea how to adjust this though...

Edit: this wasn't the problem after all