question, re: M42 lens on M39 (Zorki) camera

[Apostata]

Hello all - it's been a while since I've posted (or visited for that matter).

I'm getting a M42 lens (Soligor f2.8 28mm) for my 16mm film camera and I'm searching for an adapter that would allow it to fit onto my Zorki which has a Leica (M39) thread. Does such a beast exist? It seems, from this thread that it's possible, but I can't find any adapters listed anywhere.

Any help appreciated.

Matt

 

[bmattock]

Yes, it is possible, but search eBoy for "M42 LTM" adapters. M39 is a different standard, it is 39mm thread, but it fits former Soviet Union SLRs and has a different rear-flange to film-plane distance. There are no "M42 M39" adapters.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Apostata]

Thanks Bill. Just out of curiosity, is this what you're talking about? He mentions both LTM & M39, so I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[Apostata]

It will allow you to mount the lens. But you won't have use of the RF.

Are you referring in general to LTM adapters, or the specific adapter that I linked to in my reply? If the latter, would anyone have a picture or something so that I understand what I should be looking for?

 

[bmattock]

Thanks Bill. Just out of curiosity, is this what you're talking about? He mentions both LTM & M39, so I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly.

Cheers,

Matt

I can't get there from work, sorry - it is blocked by my company. However, use caution - there is a thin ring that is an M39 to M42 adapter. This is sometimes 'said' backwards, but the point is that it is for adapting M39 SLR lenses to M42 bodies. Sort of a 'step-up' ring if you will.

The M42 to LTM adapter is going to be longer because it has to move the lens farther away from the LTM film plane. The correct distance from an M42 lens back to the film plane is something like 45.46mm and the LTM is 28.8mm, so the adapter has to extend the lens out front by 45.6mm minus 28.8mm to keep focus correct.

This shows a lot of well-known focal backplane distances - you can learn a lot from this. If a lens you want to put on a camera has a SHORTER distance, it won't fit without a) and adapter lens element or b) putting the lens down into the throat of the camera you're trying to adapt it to. It is much easier to adapt the other way. That's why Nikon SLR cameras can't adapt too many other manufacturer's lenses with adapters - they are LONGER at 46.5mm than M42 (45.46mm) and therefore can't focus to infinity (they work for macro though).

This also explains the design of the famous T-Mount system. It is 55mm back focal distance - and therefore can be adapted to just about anything by building an adapter that is exactly 55mm - (whatever brand SLR mount) = how long the adapter must be.

Don't confuse, therefore, an M42 for a T-Mount adapter. They are easy to mistake - both are 42mm wide, but the T-Mount is .75 tpi and the the M42 is 1tpi. In other words, the T-Mount is 'fine threaded'. Don't try to force an M42 lens on a T-mount adapter or vice-versa - it will turn about half a turn and if you keep pushing, you jam it for keeps.

Remember you'll be focusing by estimating distance and using stop-down DOF effects. Not hard in a 28mm, but just so you know, there won't be any rangefinder coupling.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~westin/misc/mounts-by-register.html

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Kim Coxon]

Hi,
There is quite good info here http://www.srbfilm.co.uk/adaptors.htm The info you want is on page 7 of the price list. Although it is a UK company they have a mail order service and seem quite reasonable in comparison to Evilbay. The adapter you want costs about £20.

Kim

 

[pshinkaw]

CameraQuest has M42 lens to LTM body adapters. But they seem a little high. ($149).

I use my T-mount lenses on my Leicas. Thgose adapters typically cost no more than $20.

-Paul

 

[Apostata]

Remember you'll be focusing by estimating distance and using stop-down DOF effects. Not hard in a 28mm, but just so you know, there won't be any rangefinder coupling.

So, just to clarify, even with the proper LTM adapter I'd still have to work 'blind' (so to speak)?

Hi,
There is quite good info here http://www.srbfilm.co.uk/adaptors.htm

Many thanks for this, Kim. A reasonable price as well.

 

[pshinkaw]

Yes, you will have to "scale focus", that is, use the focusing scale to set the lens. Your rangefinder will not work at all. You can use an add-on rangefinder or a tape measure, but neither couples really well with the lens.

-Paul

 

[bmattock]

Paul is right - most LTM lenses that were designed to be directly mounted on a Leica or similar screw-mount camera body have some sort of mechanical tab or collar or coupling device that sticks out from the back of the lens. As you twist the focus ring, the coupling tab goes in or out some small distance. This is designed to couple with a receiver in the camera body, which in turn moves the rangefinder patch in your viewfinder.

SLR lenses do not have rangefinder patches, and no rangefinder coupling - so no tab or collar sticking out, and therefore, the rangefinder patch does not move no matter how you focus.

This means you must establish the distance to your subject in some other way (guess, measure, use external ranging device, etc), and set that distance on your lens barrel manually. If you are wrong about the distance, then you will be out of focus as well.

The saving grace is that very wide lenses - like a 28mm - have a very deep depth-of-field once you get about 15 feet or so away from your subject. So DOF covers a multitude of sins, in terms of guessing distance. You can get away with a lot of mistakes, in other words. A 50mm lens is not so forgiving, a 135 not even a little bit. But if you had, say an ultra-wide lens (24mm or wider), then you'd be in hog heaven.

Many people buy the classic Canon FL-mount (pre FD and pre EOS) 19mm retrofocus f3.5 and then buy a Canon FD -> LTM adapter.

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/fl/data/fl_19_35r.html

Same effect as an M42 to LTM adapter, but there are not so many M42 ultra-wides running around. And you don't really miss the rangefinder coupling when you stop down a bit and everything is in focus due to massive DOF.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Scarpia]

The adapter referred to by apostata is not the one you need. I have a similar one and use it to adapt an M-39 Kilfitt lens made for a Kilfitt version of the Visoflex to M-42 cameras including two Canon Rebels with M-42 adapters. A 39mm exttender is also needed for this setup. I also have an adapter specifically designed to adapt M-42 lenses to SM Leicas or similar cameras. I bought this one from an Ebay vendor in Macau. Unfortunately, it is off spec being a mm. or so too short. I lined the inside barrel with some solder wire so that the lens does not screw in fully and this seems to have solved the problem, but, I would hardly call this a precise solution. Try "Adapters" under "Cameras and Photo" on Ebay and hope for the best. I think I paid about $15.00 for this adapter.
Kurt M.

 

[bmattock]

Thanks for that, Kurt. I can't see eBoy from work and hence could not see what he was referring to.

For those who are now very confused, a Visoflex (Leica or other vendors made similar items) was an external device that attached to a Leica screw-mount camera and turned it into a "kind of" SLR. This required different lenses, since the distance from the Visoflex front and back had to be taken into account. So it would appear from Kurt's description that this particular adapter that apostata was referring to is an adapter designed ONLY for those M39 thread lenses that were designed JUST for the Kilfitt version of a Visoflex adapter. Not good for anything else that I'm aware of.

I have seen the special M42->LTM adapters on eBoy, but Kurt has the experience here, not I. T-Mount to LTM are much more common.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Scarpia]

T-Mount to LTM are much more common.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks[/QUOTE]
I've got one of these too. Bought it used from B&H and it works properly. Incidentally, I have no idea what the purpose of the adapter apostata showed is. It does work with that oddball Kilfitt lens (90mm, F3.5, 39mm LTM) I have, but I can't be sure that that was its original purpose. I also have 39mm and 42mm Zenit SLR's and it does allow a 39mm Helios lens to fit onto my 42mm SLR's but it won't focus to infinity. Russian vendors sell a 39mm to 42mm adapter that fits over the 39mm screw and allows a 39mm lens to focus to infinity on a 42mm mount but they look like they would be difficult to remove.
Kurt M.

 

[Nickfed]

There is a seller in Ukraine with a 42mm to Leica adapter. I think it cost me $9. It doesn't look as nice as the ones from Macau but the length is correct! There is some robber in England that charges some extortionate price.

 

[kubakaznowski]

I was looking for it!!! Please measure...

I was looking for it!!! Please measure...

There is a seller in Ukraine with a 42mm to Leica adapter. I think it cost me $9. It doesn't look as nice as the ones from Macau but the length is correct! There is some robber in England that charges some extortionate price.

could you pleeeeeese measure this length as i bought an adaptor but
i'm not sure if it's correct. and moreover i dunno what to measure.

help....

thx in advance!

 

[rxmd]

I'm getting a M42 lens (Soligor f2.8 28mm) for my 16mm film camera

What 16mm film camera is this with an M42 mount? Are you sure it's the same M42 with the same lens register that SLRs use, too?

On a side note: how do you focus on a 16mm film camera? Is that basically done by scale focusing? Then I guess being a cameraman must be a really tough job.

Philipp

 

[Nickfed]

this

The above is not what you want. It is just a ring that enables you to put an M42 on a Leica bellows and does not allow the lens to focus properly.

What you need is a short tube. The best I can measure is 17.8mm shoulder to shoulder thereby holding the M42 lens forward, essentially making up for the depth of the mirror housing.

I didn't realise the guy in Macao's stuff is no good. It seems nicely finished. I got mine from Oxana in Crimea. Hers are plain-Jane but only cost about $US9 and do what they are supposed to do.

Beware of the robber-barons in London who rip you off for some stupid sum for theirs. Perhaps they machine them from platinum and don't recycle the swarf.

Of course, you only get scale focus but this is quite OK with wide angle lenses.

 

[Nickfed]

What 16mm film camera is this with an M42 mount? Are you sure it's the same M42 with the same lens register that SLRs use, too?

I'll bet this an utter furphy. Any 16mm camera using M42 lenses would be as unique as it would be lunatic, irrespective of the register. 16mm movie cameras of that era, with the exception of Arri and, I think, MItchell used 'C' mount lenses. This was a screw thread no more than about 25mm. Leica lens registration was only about 10mm in front of 'C' mount and I have somewhere about a Leica >'C'mount adapter with a B&H back cap. My Bolex H16 usually carried a 12mm Myer and a 25mm f1.4 Leitz in C mount and a 50mm Summar in the adapter. I recall using an Industar 50 sometimes, but not for very good reason.

On a side note: how do you focus on a 16mm film camera? Is that basically done by scale focusing? Then I guess being a cameraman must be a really tough job.

Modern ones all have/had through the lens focussing. Mine didn't but it did have reflex viewing at the top of the turret. You could focus there and and then move the lens to the taking position. If you were shooting news, you soon learned not to do this.