Roger Hicks
Veteran
Well, there's at least one who is incapable of opening his mind to the idea of things like "laws". And indeed "common decency".
He sees rational arguments as "personal insults".
Cheers,
R.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Once again I ask, do you realize your logic implies that anyone is free to use just about any photograph that has ever been published on the web or in any book or magazine? Are you implying that if you paid the subject, then others would be immoral to then reuse it for their own purposes? Do I have greater intellectual property rights because I make no money from my published photography?
I believe you are grasping at straws trying to justify your illogical comments and unsustainable dialogue.
Paul T.
Veteran
And, somehow appropriately, thinks creative ideas are worthless.... yet names himself after a brand, the ultimate slave to materialism.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Been thinking about shaing, imo, bags of sweets, magnums of wine and chocolate cakes are designed for sharing; so you don't have to be asked but can just help yourself?
Regards, David
Regards, David
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Couldn't have said it better.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
plummerl
Well-known
... and from Helen Oster (Adorama) a few hours ago on APUG:
"My understanding is that everything ever submitted by that author has been removed......."
"As I noted earlier, I've been advised that all the articles from the author have already been removed"
Doesn't seem to be the simple mistake that others have insisted occurred.
"My understanding is that everything ever submitted by that author has been removed......."
"As I noted earlier, I've been advised that all the articles from the author have already been removed"
Doesn't seem to be the simple mistake that others have insisted occurred.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
I cannot see any *toxic fandom* here, well, to be honest: no *fandom* at all. Can somewhere -- anywhere -- be discovered someone -- anyone -- who would have been Mr. Resnick's *fan* (except his own customers, perhaps)?
willie_901
Veteran
And decades of trial law precedence.
Paul T.
Veteran
Firstly, I was indeed upset by your high-handed and frankly offensive attitude to creative people. It's hard making a living that way - we get ripped off all the time, photographers today are often being offered the page rates that were standard a decade ago, and recently I was offered a word-rate... that was the one I set on a magazine I launched 25 years ago. Yes, 25. There are many people far more talented and creative than me who would suffer in the world you want.
Your repeated statements that you had experience as a coder and this gave you a special understanding were also of marginal relevance - this is why I addressed it . Please don't take me as demeaning your profession - only its relevance to this discussion. We all have to make a living in whatever way, your profession demands skills I don't have, and who knows how I'll be making a living in a decade.
So... I fundamentally disagree with you, as you do me. None of my posts have been removed, and I hope never to be snide .
Please understand I dislike your ideas, not you, and please don't leave the forum because we disagree. This is only the internet. I too have close friends battling the big C, and I am sorry that this has upset you. Put me on ignore, whatever, shake your fist at the screen when you see my handle, continue to believe I am an arse, but please please please come back to the forum, and continue having fun with your X100.
PKR
Veteran
I've been following this thread and thought I'd comment. I'm recounting a story I told here before, because it involves young photography students and their view on intellectual property.
In my work environment, I share space with a good friend and photographer. His work is almost all studio based. Mine is mostly location based. He lectures at one of the big, famous, expensive Art schools in our city.
His students are in the studio about twice a month. I never know when they will be around. One of my first encounters with these Junior-senior year college kids was when I was doing some work on the building. They paid little attention to me. They thought I might have been the janitor. Fine with me.. seriously.
One gallery that holds my work has some on their website. These kids likely know the names and work of every photographer in town. My studio mate often gave these kids the run of the studio when visiting. Our office has original work hanging... stuff by Jim Marshall, Edward Weston and HCB and others. So, the students were allowed in the office unsupervised. My desk often has prints, old Kodachromes, etc. in plain sight. These kids made the connection to the gallery's web photos (they went through my desk) and the stuff at my desk. Then they came looking for me. My pal pointed out their "janitor". I was approached by several of them in a group. They weren't particularly friendly.
One young women did the talking. She said, we've been using your work for our school projects (small web grabs) and, we need bigger files. It took me a minute to process this. I said, you want bigger files of my photos for your projects.. you're photo students, shouldn't you be making your own photos? She said, yours are better, and we need them.. you have to give them to us. I told her that I simply shared space in the studio, and had no part in her education. It was my friend who was lecturing, not me. She said, it didn't matter, and that they needed the large files for their education and by not providing them, I was denying her part of her education.
What they were doing with lifted work was, running it through PS, making slight changes and then claiming it as their original work.
Our conversation ended with the following from this student (verbatim, I won't forget it): "You're old, you don't get it. Everything is free now. Get a clue!"
I've had all kinds of imagery lifted over the years, but the attitude of these young people toward intellectual property seems the norm in many places now. I do my best to keep my work off the web.
In my work environment, I share space with a good friend and photographer. His work is almost all studio based. Mine is mostly location based. He lectures at one of the big, famous, expensive Art schools in our city.
His students are in the studio about twice a month. I never know when they will be around. One of my first encounters with these Junior-senior year college kids was when I was doing some work on the building. They paid little attention to me. They thought I might have been the janitor. Fine with me.. seriously.
One gallery that holds my work has some on their website. These kids likely know the names and work of every photographer in town. My studio mate often gave these kids the run of the studio when visiting. Our office has original work hanging... stuff by Jim Marshall, Edward Weston and HCB and others. So, the students were allowed in the office unsupervised. My desk often has prints, old Kodachromes, etc. in plain sight. These kids made the connection to the gallery's web photos (they went through my desk) and the stuff at my desk. Then they came looking for me. My pal pointed out their "janitor". I was approached by several of them in a group. They weren't particularly friendly.
One young women did the talking. She said, we've been using your work for our school projects (small web grabs) and, we need bigger files. It took me a minute to process this. I said, you want bigger files of my photos for your projects.. you're photo students, shouldn't you be making your own photos? She said, yours are better, and we need them.. you have to give them to us. I told her that I simply shared space in the studio, and had no part in her education. It was my friend who was lecturing, not me. She said, it didn't matter, and that they needed the large files for their education and by not providing them, I was denying her part of her education.
What they were doing with lifted work was, running it through PS, making slight changes and then claiming it as their original work.
Our conversation ended with the following from this student (verbatim, I won't forget it): "You're old, you don't get it. Everything is free now. Get a clue!"
I've had all kinds of imagery lifted over the years, but the attitude of these young people toward intellectual property seems the norm in many places now. I do my best to keep my work off the web.
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
Sometimes the fun and excitement here can be overwhelming.
Michael Markey
Veteran
css9450
Veteran
David Hughes
David Hughes
"He lectures at one of the big, famous, expensive Art schools in our city."
I think the cirriculum needs changing a little...
Certain concerpts about making money from other people's efforts need to be included or emphassised and a bit about the legal side of things, f'intance.
Talking of that, I thought that in the USA you could get a minimum of US$750 for copyright theft but it's some time since I had a punch up with Americans scanning my stuff and selling it on.
Regards, David
I think the cirriculum needs changing a little...
Certain concerpts about making money from other people's efforts need to be included or emphassised and a bit about the legal side of things, f'intance.
Talking of that, I thought that in the USA you could get a minimum of US$750 for copyright theft but it's some time since I had a punch up with Americans scanning my stuff and selling it on.
Regards, David
Brian Atherton
Well-known
This preening, brazen appropriation of other people's hard work is rife: images, music, literature.
Colleges and universities are fighting an uphill the battle with students who plagiarise - steal - or employ and pay for ‘exam mills’ complete course work or theses without lifting a finger themselves.
A couple of examples; there are plenty of others:
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2013/10/14/photographys-growing-plagiarism-problem/
https://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/06/world/europe/german-minister-plagiarism/index.html
Colleges and universities are fighting an uphill the battle with students who plagiarise - steal - or employ and pay for ‘exam mills’ complete course work or theses without lifting a finger themselves.
A couple of examples; there are plenty of others:
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2013/10/14/photographys-growing-plagiarism-problem/
https://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/06/world/europe/german-minister-plagiarism/index.html
Hogarth Ferguson
Well-known
This has been a very fruitful and intense discussion; it also is sad to see some views that people have towards the theft of other people's images.
It does look like Adorama has parted ways with Resnick, which is upsetting for him, but wholly his own doing. If you're incapable of doing your job, you do not deserve to have that job. https://www.adorama.com/alc/article_author/mason-resnick
It does look like Adorama has parted ways with Resnick, which is upsetting for him, but wholly his own doing. If you're incapable of doing your job, you do not deserve to have that job. https://www.adorama.com/alc/article_author/mason-resnick
Brian Atherton
Well-known
What I also find sad, Hogarth, is the wilful and flagrant disregard, both in word and deed, of the law by some. Whether they like it or not, the internet is governed by law.
As for Mason Resnick, I couldn't agree more.
Hogarth Ferguson
Well-known
It was a very interesting discussion to have, of course. I've had the same one on reddit, and I thought I would find people agreeing that the download or use of an image was wrong. We are all creators. However, it seemed you had more people on the "Don't want your image stolen, don't share it" camp, or the "it is just them saying they like it by using it"
Taking an image, to use for a desktop background or for use in an advert are not that different, people need to ask permission and come to terms.
I am pretty shocked that people here take Resnick's account at face value, even in light of obvious inaccuracies.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Apparently Adorama finally came to its senses and, after first believing and defending his "it was an accident" excuse, has now parted ways with him.