Stupid Leica.... :)

[stupid leica]

Hi everybody- my old account (R3Mchris- then changed to just Chris, iirc) was locked due to inactivity, so i made a new one. I have gotten drawn back to RF, and the reason is i want either an M4 or M6. Hopefully will be able to get one in the coming months, but not sure.
I have had an R3M and a Hexar RF, and i've toyed with most the other popular models out there- so i have a pretty good idea in what i want out of a RF Camera now.
It's been so long though, since i've checked out an M4 or M6, that i can't remember exactly WHAT the viewfinder display looks like- and that is a big thing for me.

I have been looking at ebay, keh, here, and local japanese retailers- it looks like if i want a user M4 i should expect $600-700, whereas a similar M6 would pull $1000-1200.
This is correct, right? I remember a few years back when a decent M6 classic was like 800 🙁

anyways- do you guys have any pointers for me as far as REAL differences that matter, between M4, -2 and-P variations? I know the -2 is a "plain jane leica" and i like that it has minimal framelines/etc....
And as far as the M6 goes, they pretty much all have the 6 frames, right?

Thanks!

 

[Kozhe]

Hi!

Check http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

In some ways, as quoted there, from the M4-2 on, Leica changed the "adjust" for the "replace if wrong" mechanics.

The point is that any Leica (M2 or M4-2 or MP) will do perfectly fine if properly adjusted and maintained. Really 🙂

The M4-p adds 28mm to the M4-2 viewfinder iirc, the M6 is basically a 4-p with exposure meter. Most of the M4-2s I have seen look worse finished than the rest of the models.

 

[stupid leica]

i'm not as much worried about reliability or parts availability- i am just curious as to real users' opinions on the M4 variations.
I am pretty sure i've settled on whatever M4 i can find cheapest (in black, obviously!), but a cheap 6 would work too.
I do really like the simplicity of the paired-down M4-2 finder.

 

[payasam]

The finder of the M2 is simpler.

 

[stupid leica]

i probably should have clarified- i prefer the styling of the M4- with it's easier rewind and more modern looks.

 

[Roger Hicks]

My M4-P is the worst Leica I have ever owned (bought from new, too). Far less smooth than any other, and with a rangefinder patch that flares out worse than any other I have ever owned. Oh: and the black chrome finish wore appallingly and VERY FAST.

Mind you, the worst Leica I've ever had was still pretty damn' good.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Benjamin]

I agree with Roger, though I would add that one can't really go wrong with any of the models or variations if you find a good sample.

It's basically a toss up as to wether you want a classic Leica; M2/M3/M4 or one of the more modern counter parts; M4-2/M4-P/M5/M6 or indeed a newer MP.

If you don't feel the need for an exposure meter and want the angled rewind, I would say buy the original M4.

 

[stupid leica]

Roger, you should give me your M4 since you hate it so much 😛

I know for sure that i will not be getting a M2/3/5/7/8/P..... those are all out of the running.
It'll either be a 4 or 6.

 

[HuubL]

.... The M4, which is the last of the Wetzlar M bodies, is special to me.

I must agree. I have a full straight 1 to 6 classic, but my two M4s are the best of the bunch for smoothness, solidity and looks. I've never used an M4-2 or M4-P, but I gather they are compromises for the classic 4.
I suggest, go for the 4 and forget about black 😉

 

[maddoc]

If you prefer an reliable M Leica for shooting, get the M4-P and don't look back. 🙂 (... and yes, I had the M2, 3x M3, 2x M4. 2x M4-P. M5, 2x M6, M6TTL 0.85x, MP and still have an M7).

 

[stupid leica]

thanks for all the great input, guys.
I suppose from this i can gather that any of the 4 or 6's will make me quite happy.

 

[Roger Hicks]

If you prefer an reliable M Leica for shooting, get the M4-P and don't look back. 🙂 (... and yes, I had the M2, 3x M3, 2x M4. 2x M4-P. M5, 2x M6, M6TTL 0.85x, MP and still have an M7).

Dear Gabor,

Reliable, yes. Smooth and with a flare-free viewfinder, no. I've had two repairs on mine in nearly 30 years (cracked viewfinder glass because of cretinous LAX airport security guard, bent rewind crank stem cured with Leatherman pliers). The mask selection is getting sticky (not enough use since getting the MP and M8/M8.2) so it's probably time for a clean and overhaul. But shooting folk music under flary lights, the M2s (I have two) were and are better and the MP and M8/M8.2 are better.

As I said before, even a bad Leica is pretty good. But a good Leica is even nicer.

Cheers,

R.

 

[back alley]

just for the record...i don't believe that accounts are locked due to inactivity.

 

[maddoc]

Dear Roger,

flare-free VF no, smoother yes. My M4-P - after having be properly overhauled by Leica - is the smoothest Leica that I have ever owned including my lemon MP.

I bought the MP for a once in a lifetime trip to Banff, Canada. Due to the many faults of the MP (faulty shutter, electronic problem, sticky shutter, lose rewind knob) I had to sent it to Leica for a couple of times and for my trip to Canada I brought the M4-P since my MP was in for service again. The M4-P - albeit not as well regarded as the MP - allowed me to take the shots that I wanted. In the end, it is the photo that counts and not the equipment, I have learned my lesson since then.

Cheers,

Gabor

 

[Pablito]

I don't remember seeing any M6 in the $800 range since I got mine new in 1996, but NOW with the economic crisis I have seen them around that price or a little higher, here on RFF

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Roger,

flare-free VF no, smoother yes. My M4-P - after having be properly overhauled by Leica - is the smoothest Leica that I have ever owned including my lemon MP.

Gabor

Dear Gabor,

I have heard this from others: that a well set up, well worn in M4-P is a first-class camera. Certainly, mine is a lot better now than it was 30 years ago (worn in, not set up). It says quite a lot for Leicas that they 'break in' like this.

Cheers,

R.

 

[ferider]

I love my M4P. Very reliable and smooth.

However:

while we often make a big deal out of M model differences here on RFF, in practical use, the different Ms all are really very similar (and all quite different from R[23][MA] and Hexar RF.

I recommend to make your decision based on the framelines you need (only you know if you want 28 and/or 75), if you want to always hold an external meter, and the condition/price of the specific camera you find. And plan for a CLA, one never knows when getting the camera used.

Best,

Roland.

 

[maddoc]

Dear Roger,

Dear Roger,

I think that the M4-2. M4-P now slowly become what the M2, M3, M4 were before, well-worn and usable cameras.

Also, I believe that the MP is the finest mechanical 35mm camera still in production. Unfortunately, I had a lemon so I am biased. 😉

As long as these cameras do what they were made for, exposing film in a controlled way, I use whatever is available.

Cheers,

Gabor

Dear Gabor,

I hsave heard this from others: that a well set up, well worn in M4-P is a first-class camera. Certainly, mine is a lot better now than it was 30 years ago (worn in, not set up). It says quite a lot for Leicas that they 'break in' like this.

Cheers,

R.

 

[stupid leica]

Back Alley- i had been registered on here for quite some time (around 2 or 3 years, i think?), and last time i logged in under my old SN (Chris or ISO1600), i went to post, and was told i could not. I tried to PM a moderator about it, and could not... so unless something else happened that i did not know about, i suppose accounts can and do get locked due to inactivity. But please do not take this as an attack or anything- i am happy to be back, i didn't mean for it to take me this long 🙂

back in 06 when i first started looking at RF's, i was seeing M6's in the 800-900 range almost daily- here, ebay, keh, etc. They have certainly gone up in value. Hell, before the M8, everything was worth less. M7's could be had for under 1700 from time to time.
Now- with the M8, and Leica's boosted popularity, everything has gone up in value, from Bessas to MPs. Don't even get me started on 35cronV4's!

And as far as framelines go- i plan to use a 35 or 50, nothing else. I wear glasses, but i am fine with essentially using the "whole frame" for 35 on the M4-2.

Ferider- you might not remember, but i bought a shiny little Jupiter 8 from you back in 2006.
I shot that lens in several different states, and in Korea also, on my R3M and later the Hexar RF i got from Sockeyed.
This was my favorite shot i took with it.

 

[Chris101]

Hi Stu..., er, Chris!

As you can see from my little picture, I shoot daily with a M4-P. Not to challenge Roger's assertion, but it's smooth and reliable - it's the best Leica I've ever had. 😉 (It's the only Leica I've ever had - shhhh!) The viewfinder works for me, but yeah, as you are looking through several pieces of glass, it does have some loss of contrast.

Here is the best I can do to illustrate that:

Through the viewfinder:

And the same scene at the same settings on my digicam, for reference:

If you shoot with a 35mm, and are into that whole, being able to see what is just outside the frame at the time of exposure thing, then the viewfinder of the M4-P is ideal. The frame lines are perfectly placed and unobtrusive.