d__b
Well-known
What is that little window on the top right of the lens mount for?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I tried to keep myself free of expectations so that I could be objective when it was announced, rather than rumored. What I see:
What of the camera itself? It has more than enough features to satisfy me, more than enough resolution and speed, more than enough quality. It looks a nice design, a good size, a good weight, and will simply slot into my bag like a digital version of the Leicaflex SL, with some additional functionality. Beyond that, eh? It sounds pretty good from the reviews. Can't wait to see one in the flesh!
G
- It's the size and weight of my Leicaflex SL and can use all the same R lenses (and a couple the SL cannot). That's a good size for using R lenses. My R8 is bigger, heavier.
- The design is clean and seems simple to understand in use (not cluttered up and festooned with too many buttons, knobs, dials, and such like both the A7 and D750 seem to be). I exaggerate, of course, but the A7 always seemed a mess to me and the D750, while much more logically organized, still seems a bit cluttered.
- The price is the same as my M-P. A lot, but I'm actually kind of amazed they held it to that level for all the features in the SL. I had an MM246 on order for a while, deleted the order when I decided to put a hold on all high-end purchases for a bit while I'm under construction. If I go for something in the relative near term, this becomes a candidate for the same lump-o-cash in the bank. If I wait through next year, it's just another camera.
- I similarly had decided to off all my R cameras and lenses. Then I went out and shot a roll of film with the Leicaflex SL again. Then I decided not to sell four of the lenses and one body. Now, seeing this, I ain't selling nothing (except maybe the R8 and second Leicaflex SL bodies). Yeah, I'm fickle ... and conflicted. So sue me. ;-)
- It can be used with all my M and R lenses. I don't know if I'll ever buy the 24-90 bazooka, or its big brother 90-250 howitzer. I'm not really a zoom lens user. I have 19 to 180mm lenses, really good ones, already. Life is good.
- The obligatory upgrade cycle stuff doesn't bother me at all. Only with Leica (and Olympus to similar degree) do I feel completely confident planning a purchase for two years down the pike. With Sony I feel like they're trying to stuff new model down my throat every other week, with Nikon every half year or so. Only with Leica and Olympus do I feel that I can buy a top of the line camera and hold it, use it, for an extended period of time without it becoming so out of date it's nothing more than trash bin fodder. I can plan for when to buy it too, without rushing and wondering which day of the week it's going to be replaced by the "latest greatest newest thing which makes all that came before garbage". ;-) It's just my perception, yes. I still love using my 2003 E-1, however.
- I have a lot of faith in Leica service. They've always been great to me, second to none, and done me right in every interaction.
What of the camera itself? It has more than enough features to satisfy me, more than enough resolution and speed, more than enough quality. It looks a nice design, a good size, a good weight, and will simply slot into my bag like a digital version of the Leicaflex SL, with some additional functionality. Beyond that, eh? It sounds pretty good from the reviews. Can't wait to see one in the flesh!
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'd love to see them do auto-aperture with the R lenses but suspect it's not going to be. That said, there are good reasons to rely upon amping up the EVF/LCD brightness while focusing and framing stopped down - it completely avoids focus shift issues and puts using R lenses on the same footing as using M lenses. I've only had issues with 'open up-stop down' workflow in extreme circumstances when I was using a tripod anyway and time was not of the essence, so I'm ok with simple adaptation.
G
Baby of Macon
Well-known
Many communist bloc cars were boxy because their manufacturers didn't have the capacity to tool up to produce compound curves. I'm glad Leica is distinguishing itself in the marketplace by sticking to that cold war aesthetic.
rbelyell
Well-known
more like communist era architecture if you ask me, big, blocky, useless and depressing.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
Vodka cures all ills.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Huss
Veteran
"We do lots of walking, and take lots of photographs. This year it was extremely hot (high 30s Centigrade), and it’s always very dusty. I like to keep a camera in my hand at all times (it’s just not the same if you have to pull it out of a backpack). This meant that the SL was regularly splashed by seawater, drenched in sweat and then liberally dusted – as usual a couple of my lenses will need to have their paint renewed in Wetzlar.
Once again the Leica SL proved to be a tough and rewarding companion. There were several points where my iPhone refused to work (with a message saying it needed to cool down first) – the camera on the other hand performed flawlessly, the only necessary maintenance was to rinse some salty water out of one of the rear buttons which was beginning to get sticky."
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2015/10/leica-sl-test-jono/
Try that with a Sony A7xxx and you will have a dead camera in a matter of minutes.
Once again the Leica SL proved to be a tough and rewarding companion. There were several points where my iPhone refused to work (with a message saying it needed to cool down first) – the camera on the other hand performed flawlessly, the only necessary maintenance was to rinse some salty water out of one of the rear buttons which was beginning to get sticky."
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2015/10/leica-sl-test-jono/
Try that with a Sony A7xxx and you will have a dead camera in a matter of minutes.
gavinlg
Veteran
I love this. I think it's beautiful and truly a step forward for full sized DSLRs. I would absolutely love one to pair with my x-t1/fuji system.
jpfisher
Well-known
The autofocus assist beam.
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
I'm intrigued by the size of the viewfinder. But the size of the 50 renders that moot.
This is probably the kind of camera you look at and make faces at, but then reluctantly pick up and find you warm to it. As I did with the R8. But, the price is the negative kind of fantastic, it's only half the resolution of a 5d, D810, or A7something, and by the time there is a decent lens range available, the subsequent Sony will have whatever features you like in the Leica, plus some, and at less than half the price.
Bottom line is that this seems consistent with the Leica line of thought: make products for people who REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to see the Leica branding on their gear to feel good about themselves.
This is probably the kind of camera you look at and make faces at, but then reluctantly pick up and find you warm to it. As I did with the R8. But, the price is the negative kind of fantastic, it's only half the resolution of a 5d, D810, or A7something, and by the time there is a decent lens range available, the subsequent Sony will have whatever features you like in the Leica, plus some, and at less than half the price.
Bottom line is that this seems consistent with the Leica line of thought: make products for people who REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to see the Leica branding on their gear to feel good about themselves.
uhoh7
Veteran
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I guess my dozen Leica R lenses constitute 'unavailable' lenses? Or the three-four AF lenses for the T? Or however many S lenses are currently available?
All of these lens options are available already. Leica designed the SL to be compatible and work well with all their lenses because they value their customers' investment in the lenses.
There are more and higher quality lenses available for the SL already than are even planned for the Sony A7 line. Because Sony didn't engineer the A7 to work to its best with anything but their lenses designed for it.
G
Huss
Veteran
The real size:
I agree. I don't care what others think. It's a gorgeous machine
Check out that dood's guns...
We have one pic with a little person holding the camera. We have another with a giant holding the camera..
(he could be a normal size person with big arms)
Anyway, I love this camera. If this is too expensive, then so is every other Leica. If every other Leica is too expensive, well, that's how it's always been so what's new pu$$ycat?
YYV_146
Well-known
S lenses, which require a long, heavy adapter and are generally in the $6-8,000 range. You also get hit with a crop factor so there are few true wides.
M lenses? I consider the ones I regularly use equally good on both bodies. Yes, you'll need to stop down a bit for good corners on the A7rii, but isn't that what IBIS is for? being able to handhold at 4-10x longer shutter speeds means that you can either use slower lenses or lower ISOs.
R lenses, yes, but they benefit from IBIS too.
Not to mention that if you care about performance with wides...a 24mm summilux is $5500 post-discount...works well and balances well on the A7rii. The two together, used, is no more expensive than the SL.
BTW I don't get the fetish with so-called "super" lenses. The $400 28mm F2 is more than good enough for the 42mp A7rii sensor when you're down to F8. The $700 35mm sonnar lets you count eyelashes at center frame. Modern lenses that are not plastic crap are generally competent. Leica still has the high ground when it comes to the bisection between fast, sharp and small, which is why I have so many M lenses, but for a non-constant aperture zoom? Every brand has a darn good one of those.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Sure. So what? I don't own any, but I can rent them very easily if I need to. I suspect they'll image the same way other lenses of similar focal lengths image, and of course there are few ultra-wides in the right focal lengths for the 24x36mm format. They're not the only option.
I doubt you'll have to stop down at all with the SL. And yeah, it doesn't have IBIS. Neither does my M-P or D750, and neither did my A7. I couldn't bother using any of my M-mount wides on the A7 due to all the color shifting and other crud. There's a device called a Tripod ... Perhaps you've heard of it? ;-)
So what? My Leicaflex SL has been shooting with them for 44 years, and it could never be used with ISO 6400 film and get any quality out of the negatives. There's a device called a Tripod ...
I dunno. My Elmarit-R 19mm f/2.8 cost me $1200, my Elmar-M 24/3.8 cost me $1995, my Elmarit-R 24/2.8 cost me $320 ... I really don't need a Summilux-M 24mm f/1.4 ASPH as far as I can tell, and all three of these fine performing lenses cost me less than your discounted Summilux-M 24mm. Tell me why I should buy that fast and expensive a lens when "I care about performance" and I'm normally shooting at f/5.6 to f/11 with wides?
Silly stuff, YYV_146. You're making up cases that you find unappealing to not liking a camera that you don't want anyway. I'm suggesting the possibilities that exist for using that camera, since it seems to have just what I've been wanting for a while now.
G
YYV_146
Well-known
Lots of hypotheticals here, but the main point is that you can't usually prepare for all the cases. I have a tripod if I know for sure that I'll need it. But sometimes I don't. IBIS is beyond valuable for slow sync, which I use all the time for night events. You can't very well plant down a tripod for every shot.
The R lenses are fine, but reality is that a $1,000 modern, digitally optimized zoom can handily outperform all three and only be marginally larger. A large distagon 35mm F1.4 most surely outperforms my Summilux FLE. Buying into a system for the optics is getting much less important - I can go to any brand and get generally nice, reliable lenses. If we're talking about the experience of using manual lenses...well, the price tag is pretty high for the same nice aperture ring.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
No, i can't be prepared for all cases at all times. Neither can you, or anyone else for that matter. We pick and choose for what we intend to do, and make do when situations change.
Again, so what? What's your point? You can't get what you personally want? That's okay, no one is twisting your arm telling you you must use the SL. Or even like it.
G
Originally Posted by d__b
What is that little window on the top right of the lens mount for?
Yes, and secondly, there's a light sensor there, just like the one on the front of the digital-M cameras, to aid in estimating the aperture set on lenses that don't have an electrical connection to the body... M and R lenses, that is.
uhoh7
Veteran
That's a high speed contradiction
They are equally good on both bodies but you have to stop them down on on camera?
Which lenses are these?
@Huss, Oh I'm sure he's bigger than you or me
I thought that was the promo shot to get even with DPR's intentional attempt to make the camera look silly. I feel sorry for the exploited model in those shots. Really low class way to introduce a beautiful painstakingly designed, military grade, EVIL body, with several "best ever" specs.
I don't care for some four/thirds cameras, but I would never present even the most frustrating model in such a negative way, photographically. Someone has a very high opinion of themselves to make cartoon humor of a new Leica or Sony. I don't care if they talk it down, or complain all about it in words. Making the camera look stupid in a photo, on purpose, is just unprofessional and disrespectful of the many man-hours and care which have gone into the beauty.