These new digital cameras are complex

[Austerby]

I've just recently brought myself upto date with digital cameras, having bought both a Fuji XF1 (pocket/party/zoom) and a X100s.

Before that my only digital cameras have been an M8 and a D70 plus a pocket Lumix. I've been using mostly film cameras and went back into digital largely for the iso flexibility, plus the fact that my life seems a lot busier now than before and I don't have as much luxury of time to develop and scan and post-process my films (fine for serious subjects but a bit of a hassle for less formal work).

But, oh, my, these cameras are complex. I've read the user manual through a few times but there are so many menus and options and buttons that do different things if you press them in a different sequence. Fortunatley both Fuji's have similar menus, but at a garden party this past weekend (seems strange to be using that phrase at last given the long, long winter we've had) I found myself resorting to fully auto P on the X100s as I couldn't recall the menu and didn't have time to fiddle around with the settings for each shot.

How long does it take to really get the hang of these things?

 

[gavinlg]

I've just recently brought myself upto date with digital cameras, having bought both a Fuji XF1 (pocket/party/zoom) and a X100s.

Before that my only digital cameras have been an M8 and a D70 plus a pocket Lumix. I've been using mostly film cameras and went back into digital largely for the iso flexibility, plus the fact that my life seems a lot busier now than before and I don't have as much luxury of time to develop and scan and post-process my films (fine for serious subjects but a bit of a hassle for less formal work).

But, oh, my, these cameras are complex. I've read the user manual through a few times but there are so many menus and options and buttons that do different things if you press them in a different sequence. Fortunatley both Fuji's have similar menus, but at a garden party this past weekend (seems strange to be using that phrase at last given the long, long winter we've had) I found myself resorting to fully auto P on the X100s as I couldn't recall the menu and didn't have time to fiddle around with the settings for each shot.

How long does it take to really get the hang of these things?

Why not just use them like a normal manual camera? They have a manual shutter speed dial, aperture ring, and assign ISO to the Fn button. Turn the playback review off, turn the view mode to lcd off. You literally never have to go into a menu. Problem solved.

All the other stuff is pretty much just feature fluff. I use all my digital cameras like this.

 

[Keith]

A lot of these digicams have menu functions that 95% of users will never need IMO and the manuals are a nightmare of needless complexity.

 

[johannielscom]

What Gavin says. Just forget about those 'features', focus on the pictures! 🙂

 

[icebear]

A lot of these digicams have menu functions that 95% of users will never need IMO and the manuals are a nightmare of needless complexity.

+1,
I totally agree, my M9/MM are as far as my analog brain can manage 😉.
If a camera comes with a 400+ pages manual that a no go. But the useless feature count and comparison charts in test magazines push marketing to push
developers to load the cameras up with stuff that nobody uses on a regular basis and just gets in the way.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

I think the Op is saying that trying to use the camera in as simple fashion as possible is not easy.

 

[peterm1]

I don't think you have to. I always shoot aperture priority. If youa re a serious shooter that's mostly what you want anyway. Chuck in a couple of key functions like ISO setting, exposure compensation and you do not need to know that much more to shoot good images. I find the same thing - manuals are hard to understand. If you want to know more, try new things incrementally. But try them in the field as reading the book without trying it does not work for understanding.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

As others said you don't need to use most of the functions but it is nice they are there and most of the menus are setting you do once for ever. For example, flash sync has on most cameras a zirillion functions but once you set the way you use it then it stays as it is (for me that would be rear-curtain, small flash as commander, high sync speed on, modeling light on one of the function buttons), if you don't use flash you can just put the rear-sync (if you like) and "flash forced of" (so it doesn't pop up when you don't want it) and then let it alone. IS is another thing with a lot of setting, such as stabilizing only vertical or only horizontal movement for panning and who know what else but you might just let it alone if you don't pan and take away it when you put the camera on a tripod, if you don't use tripods you can just forget it exists. White balance you can ignore if you shot RAW. AF can be set also in many way but for most uses just one point is fine, if you shot fast moving object and you rather live with an out of focus image (or an image focused on a point different from the AF point) than miss a picture you can set priority of shutter on focus. Again if you don't shot fast object you don't need to care at all (actually you can just use manual focus). The list could go on forever but the point is just let alone what you don't use, set as you like what you use only from time to time and focus on the few functions you might need often, then go out and take pictures!

GLF

 

[noisycheese]

I've just recently brought myself upto date with digital cameras, having bought both a Fuji XF1 (pocket/party/zoom) and a X100s.

Before that my only digital cameras have been an M8 and a D70 plus a pocket Lumix. I've been using mostly film cameras and went back into digital largely for the iso flexibility, plus the fact that my life seems a lot busier now than before and I don't have as much luxury of time to develop and scan and post-process my films (fine for serious subjects but a bit of a hassle for less formal work).

But, oh, my, these cameras are complex. I've read the user manual through a few times but there are so many menus and options and buttons that do different things if you press them in a different sequence. Fortunatley both Fuji's have similar menus, but at a garden party this past weekend (seems strange to be using that phrase at last given the long, long winter we've had) I found myself resorting to fully auto P on the X100s as I couldn't recall the menu and didn't have time to fiddle around with the settings for each shot.

How long does it take to really get the hang of these things?

This is one of the many reasons my primary camera is a Leica M4-P. With digital cameras, you are paying for a lot of technology that sits unused for the majority of photographers. With a camera like the M4-P, you have the following controls to contend with:

Shutter speed dial
Shutter release button
Film advance lever
Film rewind crank
Aperture setting dial (on the lens)
Focus ring (on the lens)
Film rewind lever
Lens release button
Frame line preview lever

That's it - nine things to deal with. In the process of making a photograph, you use just four of those controls (shutter speed, shutter release, aperture setting, focus) - after you have determined your exposure setting either by experience or by using a handheld light meter.

This is elemental photography. The photographic process stripped to its core necessities. It is a wonderful way to make photographs.

While it's true that new Leica M lenses and camera body prices are hideously high these days, used bodies and lenses are priced within the reach of the average person. Bodies can be found in the $750-$1500+ range, depending on condition. Same for lenses. I have seen the 50mm f/2.8 Elmar rated in "9" condition listed for as little as $575 and the 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit rated as "9" for as little as $995.

So the reality is that one Leica camera body and one lens can be had for $1500 with some judicious shopping. That's less than many (or maybe most) mid-range DSLR bodies sell for these days.

It just depends on how a person wants to pursue the photographic process. 😉

 

[ray*j*gun]

God you can say that again.......I still have a no clue how to use all of my D90 features and I have had it for years. Of course they are computers with lenses......

 

[ZeissFan]

A couple of years ago, the photographers at work got the then-new Nikon D700. The all-English owner's manual was 270 pages.

Digital cameras offer a lot of power and flexibility, and to fully take advantage of that, you really should understand its various menus, buttons and button combos. On the other hand, it's all too easy to forget that knowledge.

I picked up my Pentax K10D the other day and couldn't remember how to override one of its autofunctions. After a while, I gave up.

 

[biomed]

The complexity is sometimes overwhelming! I believe I have sorted out my new camera enough to use the manual mode. I have only had to reset it to factory defaults once. The manuals don't offer much help. Using guide books like those by Alexander White will help. Now if I can figure out to program the function buttons!!!!:bang:

Mike

 

[Roger Hicks]

A couple of years ago, the photographers at work got the then-new Nikon D700. The all-English owner's manual was 270 pages.

Digital cameras offer a lot of power and flexibility, and to fully take advantage of that, you really should understand its various menus, buttons and button combos. On the other hand, it's all too easy to forget that knowledge.

I picked up my Pentax K10D the other day and couldn't remember how to override one of its autofunctions. After a while, I gave up.

Why? What is all this 'power and flexibility' that can't be duplicated (or improved upon) by a photographer who understands the basics of shutter speed, aperture, ISO and focus?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Monochrom]

Oh, i know exacty what you mean....i was about to buy an xe1...but just looking into the menu made me sick...the vf has a line for the horizon like video game aircrafts :O!!!

So i went for the easiest i could find...a dp2 M...just almost the basic things...but i miss a shutter speed dial...although this sigma is getting suspicious😀....the last firmware has some kind of face detection...i don´t even know how to use it...don´t wanna either...!

Cheers!

 

[kshapero]

I must say kudos to Leica on their M9. Manual and menus are short and sweet. Allows me to focus shooting.

 

[furcafe]

That was me, too. Took me a couple hours just to set everything so that it worked like an F3 (or some other 1980s camera) & much longer to see if any of the new-fangled features were useful for me (mostly, no).

Also, a slight correction: if you include the ToC, index, etc., the D700's English manual is over 400 pages long (big print, though).

A couple of years ago, the photographers at work got the then-new Nikon D700. The all-English owner's manual was 270 pages.

Digital cameras offer a lot of power and flexibility, and to fully take advantage of that, you really should understand its various menus, buttons and button combos. On the other hand, it's all too easy to forget that knowledge.

 

[steveclem]

Shutter speed dial,exp.comp. dial, ASA dial, b+w option and an aperture ring on the lens, in a digital body, leave all the gizmos to the home computer.
An F4s digital is what I want to see!

 

[FA Limited]

I found myself resorting to fully auto P on the X100s as I couldn't recall the menu and didn't have time to fiddle around with the settings for each shot.

How long does it take to really get the hang of these things?

i don't understand how you had to "settle" for Full Auto P as the X100 has a shutter speed and an aperture ring dial. the way you've written it makes it sounds like you don't know how to use a camera even though i know it's not true.

the vf has a line for the horizon like video game aircrafts :O!!!

i have it enabled on my X100 all the time, it's great. i don't see what the problem is if it is useful for some people and can be disabled.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Why? What is all this 'power and flexibility' that can't be duplicated (or improved upon) by a photographer who understands the basics of shutter speed, aperture, ISO and focus?

Cheers,

R.

It all depends on the kind of functions we are talking about. You can safely take away, say, the P mode, all "landscape", "portrait" and so on modes and stuff like "red eyes reduction" but AF, IS, flash sync, how many frames/sec the camera is capable of, whether or not it supports tethering (did I forget anything?) should be there if you need that kind of stuff as experience and knowledge doesn't create such functions

All the knowledge in the world don't make your fingers faster (and age doesn't help), if you are shooting fast stuff you have a clear advantage if the camera focuses fast, follows moving objects staying in focus, shot some 10fps, if you don't then of course you don't need that stuff but it is not something like "if you know a lot that will come by itself". Sure, Leni Riefenstahl was shooting sport with screw mount Leicas but you cannot compare her results with the stuff people ask today to a sport photographer.

Flash is the same, you can of course use a few flashbulbs connected with cables to that same screw mount camera but a few modern units attached via a Pocket Wizard or whatever you have at hand are actually quite a bit more comfortable.

Now one might argue that since most of us don't need a lot of functions most of the time it would be nice to have cameras without them and not having to pay for the development of the technology but I guess that probably cameras without the functions would have a much smaller market and would therefore be also more expensive. Of course there are exceptions such as the Foeveon Sigmas but it is difficult to imagine the market of that cameras supporting Sigma alone.

We have more than we need and are free of not using it, what's better?

GLF

 

[furcafe]

That seems to be Leica's business model.

Now one might argue that since most of us don't need a lot of functions most of the time it would be nice to have cameras without them and not having to pay for the development of the technology but I guess that probably cameras without the functions would have a much smaller market and would therefore be also more expensive.