Thoughts on the future of the MP ?

let's look at the marketing proposition of new film leicas analogically in order to negate the considerable affection invested in the brand by many RFFers.

how many people would buy a brand new 1974 BMW automobile today for USD 45,000?

i don't say this to suggest MP owners are foolish or quaint or whatever (i'd love an MP myself but lack the funds). i am suggesting that the marketing concept behind the MP is very limited in its application.
 
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S/h TTLs are a steal at the moment, certainly in the UK. This must be hurting new M7 and MP sales.

Here's my experience. In the past year I have returned to Leica photography. I've bought two new lenses - OK, they're only Summarits, but they are new - and a s/h M6TTL. So I can certainly imagine that production of the M film bodies might be a bit stop-start. While I understand the areas in which both the M7 and MP are (differently) better than my TTL, I can't persuade myself that the difference is that great. However the price difference is enormous - 2.5 times. I paid £800 for my s/h TTL, from a premium dealer. They also had a solitary s/h M7, at £1200 (IIRC). Other than that it would have been new bodies, at a cost of over £2000. Deciding to economise on the camera part, and spend more on the lenses (i.e. buy new ones) was easy.
 
I personally believe that even if Leica decides to stop the production of Leica M film cameras, it's not going to be a big problem because there are still a lot of quality second hand Leica M cameras still available, and we all know that the rangefinder camera market is tiny compared to the DSLR market.

Last year, I managed to get myself a second hand Black Paint Leica MP at a great price deal when the economy was strong and also when the Australian dollar was very strong compared to the US Dollar, but I don't think that I'll ever sell my Leica MP though...
 
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Almost every other company has stopped production of film bodies so it's no surprise if the M7 goes, really. The Nikon F6 is long discontinued, Canon only make a plastic EOS and Olympus don't even make the MJU compacts anymore.

We're a dying breed. I wish we weren't, I really do. I hated my M8 for many reasons but liked it - enough to make me somewhat regret giving it back - for other reasons. Sadly, if I was to buy another digital body now I couldn't afford the M8 again or M8.2. It's the only digital camera in history to sell for nearly $3000NZ RRP more after two years on the shelf from first release. But I guess that's life and economics, two things I'm not so experienced in. I'd love to use my little Leica lenses on the future M's but doubt I could afford it any time soon. So I stick with film and my little desktop scanner and hope for a turn in fortune for a small German company.
 
MCTuomey said:
BMW automobile today for USD 45,000?
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A brand new BMW from 1974 will probably sell much more than 45.000 for collectors.
I don't care how much time they will produce MP. The important thing is that I manage to get one when I had the money. And even more important is that I use it and works like a charm. And the most important thing is that I can make photographs that look different than any digital files produced by an M8 or other current digital camera.
 
stefan_dinu said:
A brand new BMW from 1974 will probably sell much more than 45.000 for collectors.
I don't care how much time they will produce MP. The important thing is that I manage to get one when I had the money. And even more important is that I use it and works like a charm. And the most important thing is that I can make photographs that look different than any digital files produced by an M8 or other current digital camera.
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even second hand 😉

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/45825

now a brand-new m2 repro......................
 
that's kinda my point, stewart and stefan. the market for such an item, whatever the price, is limited to the very few (as you point out, collectors, for example). similarly, an MP and certainly the M7 are a rather slim proposition for leica from an earnings generation point of view. no economies of scale since the production will be so limited, so cost and price will be correspondingly high. in other words, very much a niche camera for the well-heeled or those very few who like them enough to sacrifice to buy one.

like any "dying breed" among camera makers and users, we can only hope enough people continue to shoot film with leicas to keep the 2nd-hand market and service and parts support alive.
 
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MCTuomey said:
we can only hope enough people continue to shoot film with leicas to keep the 2nd-hand market and the service and parts support alive.
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Yes. That's the problem of Leica. A lot of people (or even too many people) only buy 2nd-hand equipment. I am astonished every year how Leica can survive this customer behaviour.
 
I had little choice other than to buy second hand (in fact all my cameras have been second hand, and lenses come to that...) as I don't have an extravagant salary to blow ~£2100 for a new MP or M7. (I'd go for the MP myself) At present that would take me a year or so to save for without any glass. As it stands I was able to purchase my M2 on only two month's worth of savings which was a no brainer for me (plus I have really fallen for the M2's simplicity and frames.)

I don't have any plans to shoot digital, I love using film too much (I adore working in my darkroom, well the bathroom) and I don't have any real concerns that I won't be able to buy film -- it'll be around for some time yet.

However, it is still a shrinking market and at the point Leica is losing money producing film cameras (manufacturing cost vs. retail cost) they should cut loose. Why? Because we probably all want Leica to hang in there and even if they only produce digital M mount cameras, at least they will continue to produce M mount glass and that's important.

Come to think of it, with their recent new M mount lenses, I don't think they will be abandoning the M system yet. That said, I am resigned to agreeing the M7 must now be on borrowed time, the MP less so.
 
Any top “Brand” needs a flagship, at one time Maserati commanded the same prestige as Ferrari, but Maserati stopped racing and the brand slipped, I would guess Leica are more keen to preserve their image. Anyway some people buy a camera to take pics with, and some people buy them to drive around in their Ferrari.
 
As a film based photographer (slr's and rangefinders), I would morn the passing of cameras like the M7 or MP, but realistically, like many others, I can't afford to buy these cameras new. What would impact me most would be the loss of Cosina's film based rangefinder cameras and lenses. That's the price world I live in for new equipment, and they may be more vulnerable to the decline in interest in new film based cameras than a status marke like Leica.
 
I'm not certain that the BMW analogy is apt. Perhaps high end audio would be a more appropriate parallel to Leica users. Audiophiles spend enormous amounts of money on vacuum tube amplifiers and compressed air tonearm turntables. Purists contend that analog sound is still superior to digital.

A Leica owner is also more likely to own a vinyl collection, a classic car/motorcycle, a vintage espresso machine, a sailboat, a fountain pen, etc.

It will always be a niche market, but I feel there will always be people who 'Think Different' and will continue to buy MPs and other film cameras.

Besides, there are people out there still shooting on glass plates, and they're not too worried.
 
Heh, why would you buy a Rolex for $8000 when you can have a Timex that keeps better time for $80? Everyone has their reasons but in the end you really do get what you pay for.

In the end, most people buy what makes them happy. The rest buy what they think makes them look important.
 
i like jim rakete a lot. i recently went to one of his exhibitions in frankfurt, stunning work.

but his quote that you need a leica and nothing but a leica for that kind of images is just ignorant...
 
ewoq said:
i like jim rakete a lot. i recently went to one of his exhibitions in frankfurt, stunning work.

but his quote that you need a leica and nothing but a leica for that kind of images is just ignorant...
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Agreed ... I remember when I first saw that clip I found that comment offensive and stupid! That whole Leica superiority thing just goes round and round ... yes they're a great camera but so are all the Nikon F's that recorded stunning images under extreme conditions from Vietnam and numerous other war zones around around the world.
 
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Keith said:
Agreed ... I remember when I first saw that clip I found that comment offensive and stupid! That whole Leica superiority thing just goes round and round ... yes they're a great camera but so are all the Nikon F's that recorded stunning images under extreme conditions from Vietnam and numerous other war zones around around the world.
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Yeah, Keith, but which one has a chicken helmet for image stabilization?

OT...sorry😉
 
Having lived in Germany and understanding their mindset, it is my contention you will have nothing to worry about with the Leica support.

Germans tend to move at a steady pace when it comes to manufacturing and production. If they have, in fact, decided to discontinue the MP/M7 then that is their business decision that makes sense to them and they only came to that conclusion after years of research.

Reputation is big for a company like Leica. If they left us high and dry without support and parts, they would really suffer for any future business. Once a company abandons it faithful in Germany, they will loose the customers' business and never get them back.

On that note, my M2 is 51 years old this year and I still don't have problems getting parts.
 
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