Merkin
For the Weekend
After doing research and budgeting for a few months now, and after considering eight million different camera and lens options, I have narrowed my choices down to two main options that I could manage for about the same price. I am considering the following:
a used M6 body and either a CV 35mm f1.4 or a zeiss planar 50mm f2
or
a new CV r2a/m (haven't yet decided between having aperture priority and the ability to run without batteries) and both the CV 35 1.4 and the zeiss planar.
The crux of the issue is this: I know that the M6 body is better built than the CV, and I like the fact that there are more framelines on the M6. However, I do not know when I will be able to expand my lens selection, and I would like to have the planar for daytime shooting and the CV 35 for low light, out on the town sort of situations, as I shoot in both situations equally. The other thing is that this camera, whichever I get, will be a daily walking-around camera which will go pretty much everywhere with me. I tend to shoot medium format when I go out to get a very specific shot, like a landscape, so the question becomes one of balancing the increased ruggedness of the m6 with the decreased price point of the bessa.
I have decided that even though I can afford a used m6 body, I cannot afford Leica glass, so whichever option I choose, i will be using CV or zeiss glass for a long time to come.
Regarding the framelines, a used m6 costs almost the same as two new bessas, so when I do finally get around to buying a wider angle lens (i am holding out hoping that CV will make a 28mm f1.4) I could just as easily buy an r4 body at the same time.
As an Apple computer user, I definitely understand the smugness factor, as well as the pleasure of use and superior results of owning really good equipment, but I am afraid that the red dot on the front of an m6 would act like a bullseye to thieves, where a CV might fly a bit more under the radar, so to speak. Also, how much does the body factor in to the overall result of your photography? I would think that the glass would be much more important (obviously, the skill and creativity of the user is the most important factor, but you get my point.).
Considering these choices and the parameters surrounding them, is it better to start with a better body and only one lens, or a body that isn't quite as good, with more lens flexibility?
Since I am leaning more toward the CV and 2 lenses option, I thought I would bring this to the leica section to make sure that there weren't any factors I am not taking in to consideration.
Thank you all very much in advance for your time and advice.
a used M6 body and either a CV 35mm f1.4 or a zeiss planar 50mm f2
or
a new CV r2a/m (haven't yet decided between having aperture priority and the ability to run without batteries) and both the CV 35 1.4 and the zeiss planar.
The crux of the issue is this: I know that the M6 body is better built than the CV, and I like the fact that there are more framelines on the M6. However, I do not know when I will be able to expand my lens selection, and I would like to have the planar for daytime shooting and the CV 35 for low light, out on the town sort of situations, as I shoot in both situations equally. The other thing is that this camera, whichever I get, will be a daily walking-around camera which will go pretty much everywhere with me. I tend to shoot medium format when I go out to get a very specific shot, like a landscape, so the question becomes one of balancing the increased ruggedness of the m6 with the decreased price point of the bessa.
I have decided that even though I can afford a used m6 body, I cannot afford Leica glass, so whichever option I choose, i will be using CV or zeiss glass for a long time to come.
Regarding the framelines, a used m6 costs almost the same as two new bessas, so when I do finally get around to buying a wider angle lens (i am holding out hoping that CV will make a 28mm f1.4) I could just as easily buy an r4 body at the same time.
As an Apple computer user, I definitely understand the smugness factor, as well as the pleasure of use and superior results of owning really good equipment, but I am afraid that the red dot on the front of an m6 would act like a bullseye to thieves, where a CV might fly a bit more under the radar, so to speak. Also, how much does the body factor in to the overall result of your photography? I would think that the glass would be much more important (obviously, the skill and creativity of the user is the most important factor, but you get my point.).
Considering these choices and the parameters surrounding them, is it better to start with a better body and only one lens, or a body that isn't quite as good, with more lens flexibility?
Since I am leaning more toward the CV and 2 lenses option, I thought I would bring this to the leica section to make sure that there weren't any factors I am not taking in to consideration.
Thank you all very much in advance for your time and advice.
nrb
Nuno Borges
I have both a used M6 and a new R2M. The R2M fits better in my hands. The results are the same, depending on the lens only.
iñaki
Well-known
I have a Bessa R (bought first) and a M6TTL. Same results with the same lens, and now I use them with different films. The Bessa is a very good camera (lighter, very good finder) but I "needed" a Leica M
.
I´m with zwicko, try with one lens first. I only use a 35mm.
.I´m with zwicko, try with one lens first. I only use a 35mm.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Hmm, I don't have experience with the mentioned stuff, having used an M4 and Fed-2/Fed-5b up to now.
But I think I'd take the M6 with 35mm lens.
But I think I'd take the M6 with 35mm lens.
Merkin
For the Weekend
the desire for both the 35 1.4 and the planar comes down to wanting a 'nighttime lens' and a 'daytime lens.' i love how meaty and sharp the world looks through a planar, so it would be very desireable as a daytime, walking around, "f8 and be there" lens. the 35, on the other hand, would give me two full stops more low light handholding, and i find that i like having a lens that is a little bit wider when I am out shooting at night. I tend to stick pretty close to either side of 43mm with my lenses, so I would consider having a 35 and a 50 to be having a slight wide and a slight tele.
mirrored
Established
Who don't? Can't do 50mm things with wide. 50mm have most multiple features and that is perfectly clear. 40mm is already very different from 50mm. But for someone alternative can be 35 or 40 and 75.
Merkin, why not a little used Bessa first? And take a more look to lens quality and choice, conscientiously.
(I just bought like a new R3A with 350€. I don't have it yet.)
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Merkin
For the Weekend
mirrored- I would rather have a new bessa so I would have a warranty. I would feel comfortable owning a m6 without one.
zwicko- in addition to the higher cost of a 'cron, i am afraid i would be a bit too nervous having such an expensive lens around my neck all the time. the m6 body's ruggedness would alleviate the nervousness about having such an expensive body around my neck all the time, but glass is glass. this is going to be an all the time, day and night, 'decisive moment' rig, and I don't want to feel at all squeamish about using it as such.
zwicko- in addition to the higher cost of a 'cron, i am afraid i would be a bit too nervous having such an expensive lens around my neck all the time. the m6 body's ruggedness would alleviate the nervousness about having such an expensive body around my neck all the time, but glass is glass. this is going to be an all the time, day and night, 'decisive moment' rig, and I don't want to feel at all squeamish about using it as such.
sanmich
Veteran
I am sensitive to the quality feeling and responsiveness of my gear.
I would have chosen the M6+ Planar, knowing I won't be tempted to upgrade anytime soon.
I know that some don't care, and as long as the picture goes out ok, it's fine with them. I guess they woulf advice for a wider lens stash.
I would have chosen the M6+ Planar, knowing I won't be tempted to upgrade anytime soon.
I know that some don't care, and as long as the picture goes out ok, it's fine with them. I guess they woulf advice for a wider lens stash.
snip
Established
As much as I would love to have a Leica camera i LOVE my Bessa's (have an R2, R4A and L) and since like you I won't be affording any Leica glass in the near future I find it silly to be sinking money into a Leica body.
About the being able to shoot without batteries, just have extra batteries! They are tiny and cost next to nothing, a box of ten can be had for the price of a big mac meal.
AE is really nice to have and you don't have to use it, if you have a body with no AE then you don't have the choice of using it.
And as far as getting another body, this is a real boon, now you can use both your lenses at the same time without changing lens, you can use two different emulsions at the same time etc. etc.
In my book the Bessa's are a clear winner here.
Oh and don't worry about a warranty, if you get one that has been well looked after and has not broken yet, it ain't going to.
//Jan
About the being able to shoot without batteries, just have extra batteries! They are tiny and cost next to nothing, a box of ten can be had for the price of a big mac meal.
AE is really nice to have and you don't have to use it, if you have a body with no AE then you don't have the choice of using it.
And as far as getting another body, this is a real boon, now you can use both your lenses at the same time without changing lens, you can use two different emulsions at the same time etc. etc.
In my book the Bessa's are a clear winner here.
Oh and don't worry about a warranty, if you get one that has been well looked after and has not broken yet, it ain't going to.
//Jan
mirrored
Established
Warranty time is ending always and when used, it is tested. :angel:
Nokton 35/1.4 is not for me because distortion. But many likes it. I prefer allways second hand. In lenses especially. But somebody is good to buy new too - so second hand offers is quaranteed.
I am new to RF. I have many 50mm lenses to SLR. Now I see it last: I have bought allready three 50mm to RF. Two 50mm Summicron, Rigid and 3' version + Industar 61 L/D. Now I look for 35 Summicron 8-elements. I don't have will to collect. I will buy after choose. But fast 50mm is in my sight too...
Nokton 35/1.4 is not for me because distortion. But many likes it. I prefer allways second hand. In lenses especially. But somebody is good to buy new too - so second hand offers is quaranteed.
I am new to RF. I have many 50mm lenses to SLR. Now I see it last: I have bought allready three 50mm to RF. Two 50mm Summicron, Rigid and 3' version + Industar 61 L/D. Now I look for 35 Summicron 8-elements. I don't have will to collect. I will buy after choose. But fast 50mm is in my sight too...
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nrb
Nuno Borges
Either M6 or R2M with 1.4/35 and 2/50 are very fine choices. Look forward to getting interestind subjects to shoot at instead of losing too much time on discussing more gear. After all HCB only used a M body and a 35 or 50 lens, both at f/8.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
I think the Canon 50/1.8 is perfect. Just invest in a $20 adapter. Gaining recognition and prices had been going up lately. If you ever find a Canon 50/1.5 you should snap it up before I see it.
The Ultron 35 is one I use most, but for nature shots, I use the CV Skopar Classic, dirt cheap and a very good value.
Only downside - you need to buy an adapter. They are all LTM.
The Ultron 35 is one I use most, but for nature shots, I use the CV Skopar Classic, dirt cheap and a very good value.
Only downside - you need to buy an adapter. They are all LTM.
Merkin
For the Weekend
mirrored- buying used glass has always made me nervous for some reason, unless it is from someone I know personally. Perhaps it is simply paranoia on my part, or the horror of walking in to so many camera stores and seeing all of the used lenses sitting around with no caps. A lens just seems so much easier to damage than a body.
mirrored
Established
Can't help you more with your nervous, but fear have no sense if can look lens in your hand or have possibility to bring it back if not same as described. (You can try to make deal with 7 days sending back for any reason. For example. You can shoot and develop in that time too.)
It's personal, but I prefer 35/2 and 50/1.4. It's more natural for optic and you can get better quality.
It's personal, but I prefer 35/2 and 50/1.4. It's more natural for optic and you can get better quality.
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Merkin
For the Weekend
I couldn't agree more. The last few months I have been shooting nothing but holgas while I get my monetary situation set for scoring some new gear, and I am absolutely sick of it, especially now that the light isn't good enough half the time.
januaryman- do the adapters ever come loose from the lenses and/or get stuck in the camera body? the only experience i have ever had with lens adapters was not particularly pleasant.
mirrored/zwicko- while i think everyone would ideally love to have every lens they own be able to go from f1 to f64, considering that isn't an option, if i had to have one 1.4 lens and one f2 lens, i would rather have the 35 be the f1.4, because between a strap, a soft release, and no mirror, i can handhold a 35mm lens at 1/30 sec, whereas I can only handhold a 50mm lens at 1/60, so I get two extra stops out of the 35 f1.4 than i would out of a 50mm f2. I am a smoker, so I don't have the steadiest of hands, so I am not one of those lucky people who can go much slower than the focal length of the lens they are using.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The Leica for the heart ... the Bessa for ther head!
Tough choice ... good luck!
Tough choice ... good luck!
mirrored
Established
Yes. And it is an entire stop. A remarkable differency for many practical situations, 100 or 200 ISO, 1/8 or 1/15 sek, 2x amount of light in use.
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Merkin
For the Weekend
Perhaps it is an error of semantics on my part. Using, say, 400 speed film, at f2, with a shutter speed of 1/60, my exposure would be correct at ev6. Using the same film at f1.4, with a shutter speed of 1/30, my exposure would be correct at ev4, a difference of two ev values. This is what I meant by 'stop,' but perhaps i was incorrect in my assumption that the difference between one ev and the next is considered one stop.
mirrored
Established
The Leica for the heart ... the Bessa for ther head!
Tough choice ... good luck!
I will soon see, but when looking black bodys in this thread, I think Bessa could take my heart too.
Austerby
Well-known
I'd suggest trying to physically hold each camera to see which you prefer.
I agree you should not avoid secondhand lenses - buy with caution and a guarantee from reputable sources and you should have no problems: most of my lenses have been bought used and they're as good as new.
I agree you should not avoid secondhand lenses - buy with caution and a guarantee from reputable sources and you should have no problems: most of my lenses have been bought used and they're as good as new.