35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Marvelous. thanks -
Voigtlander 21mm or 25mm for the M9?
- Thread starter taemo
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 40
- Views 18K
Marvelous. thanks -
russelljtdyer
Writer
Updated Comments
Updated Comments
I just purchased a Leica M9--it's in the mail, working its way to me. I want to get also a 21mm lens for occasional use. I'm thinking an inexpensive one would be fine. So I want to believe that the Voigtlander 21mm f/4 lens will work with the M9. I read the positive comments here, but I'm concerned by Ken Rockwell's multiple warnings on his site.
He claims that the M9 will have problems with any of the 21mm lenses except for the newer Leica and Zeiss f/2.8 lenses--except that they block the viewfinder and don't use his preferred lens filter. He's obsessed with lens filters. I wonder if there's a psychological term for that: filtered fixation? Sorry. Got sidetracked.
In his review of the Leica 21mm Super-angulon f/4 lens, if you look for the section called, LEICA M9: Insufficient, you'll see a photo he took of a white wall using that lens with an M9. It shows the extreme edges of the image to be discolored. That concerns me. I saw the photos others posted here, but they're not unobstructed images of a white wall.
All of Rockwell's reviews of the 21mm lenses, in which he says the Leica M9 camera has problems with them, were written a few years ago before several updates to the camera firmware. So maybe he's wrong at this point. Maybe the M9 can handle these lenses.
Any new comments on this topic? Maybe someone with an M9 and the Voigtlander lens could take a photo of an evenly lit, white wall and post it here. That would be reassuring.
Thanks,
Russell
Updated Comments
I just purchased a Leica M9--it's in the mail, working its way to me. I want to get also a 21mm lens for occasional use. I'm thinking an inexpensive one would be fine. So I want to believe that the Voigtlander 21mm f/4 lens will work with the M9. I read the positive comments here, but I'm concerned by Ken Rockwell's multiple warnings on his site.
He claims that the M9 will have problems with any of the 21mm lenses except for the newer Leica and Zeiss f/2.8 lenses--except that they block the viewfinder and don't use his preferred lens filter. He's obsessed with lens filters. I wonder if there's a psychological term for that: filtered fixation? Sorry. Got sidetracked.
In his review of the Leica 21mm Super-angulon f/4 lens, if you look for the section called, LEICA M9: Insufficient, you'll see a photo he took of a white wall using that lens with an M9. It shows the extreme edges of the image to be discolored. That concerns me. I saw the photos others posted here, but they're not unobstructed images of a white wall.
All of Rockwell's reviews of the 21mm lenses, in which he says the Leica M9 camera has problems with them, were written a few years ago before several updates to the camera firmware. So maybe he's wrong at this point. Maybe the M9 can handle these lenses.
Any new comments on this topic? Maybe someone with an M9 and the Voigtlander lens could take a photo of an evenly lit, white wall and post it here. That would be reassuring.
Thanks,
Russell
Monochrom
Well-known
Wow nice question!
I used a 21 on my m9....not bad in terms of sharpness but a quite distinguishable italian flag.
But this little VC glass behaves better that the most expensive 21 4.5 ZM lens :O
Which take that flaw into new levels of suffering!!!
I wanted the 25mm but haven´t loked into serous shots made with this combo!
So would eb great some testing and picture posting here
I used a 21 on my m9....not bad in terms of sharpness but a quite distinguishable italian flag.
But this little VC glass behaves better that the most expensive 21 4.5 ZM lens :O
Which take that flaw into new levels of suffering!!!
I wanted the 25mm but haven´t loked into serous shots made with this combo!
So would eb great some testing and picture posting here
taemo
eat sleep shoot
i don't own an M9 anymore (replaced it with an A7) but I found the 25 skopar great when I used it.
here's a test shot at f/8
Test shot with Snapshot Skopar 25mm by earl.dieta, on Flickr
and a shot I took during an event
L1002512 by earl.dieta, on Flickr
here's a test shot at f/8
Test shot with Snapshot Skopar 25mm by earl.dieta, on Flickr
and a shot I took during an event
L1002512 by earl.dieta, on Flickr
ktmrider
Well-known
Voightlander 21
Voightlander 21
I had the same concerns as I have the 21f4 and have an M9 for six weeks. I just got back from a month in SE Asia and used the M9/21f4 and have not had any problems. However, I have just started processing the imagines in LR.
Interesting I just subscribed to Sean Reid and his test reports on 21's rates the Voightlander very highly. In fact, the main reason I subscribed was to see his reports on various lenses on the M9.
Voightlander 21
I had the same concerns as I have the 21f4 and have an M9 for six weeks. I just got back from a month in SE Asia and used the M9/21f4 and have not had any problems. However, I have just started processing the imagines in LR.
Interesting I just subscribed to Sean Reid and his test reports on 21's rates the Voightlander very highly. In fact, the main reason I subscribed was to see his reports on various lenses on the M9.
the Voigtlander 21/1.8 should be great with the M9, M240, A7.
Not sure about the A7r.
Stephen
Not sure about the A7r.
Stephen
ktmrider
Well-known
Yes, the 21f1.8 is getting great reviews but it is a big lens and one I don't use a whole lot. I have the 35f1.2 and love it but it is big. My daughter and I will be traveling for 3 months starting in August and I want to go light.
Presently, I plan on the 21f4, 35f1.2 and 90f2.8 but have tossed around the idea of a 35f2.5 and 75 vice 90. Of course the question is would I miss the 1.2 aperture.
Presently, I plan on the 21f4, 35f1.2 and 90f2.8 but have tossed around the idea of a 35f2.5 and 75 vice 90. Of course the question is would I miss the 1.2 aperture.
ktmrider
Well-known
Got to say, I have just uploaded imagines into LR from the M9 (had it a week before I left) from a month in SE Asia. Am not seeing any color shift in the corners at ALL. Am very pleasantly surprised. Again, Sean Reid loves this little lens.
After some of the stuff I read on the web, I was going to sell it if it caused much cyan shift in the corners. The last thing I like doing is setting at a computer correcting image problems.
After some of the stuff I read on the web, I was going to sell it if it caused much cyan shift in the corners. The last thing I like doing is setting at a computer correcting image problems.
dblrifle
Member
Don't have an M9 but do use the 21mm f4 on an M8 and am quite pleased with it. I use the proper filter and it is really my favorite lense. Exceptionally sharp. Have never used without the filter so could not really remark on that aspect.
There's an advantage of the M8, it works excellent with all these lenses that are showing red edges and smearing corners on full-frame sensors!
russelljtdyer
Writer
That's because the M8 crops out the edges where the color shifts may be occurring. If I was willing to accept a tighter angle of view, I could crop in all of my images in Lightroom. Or I could just use my Zeiss 35mm lens. What I want is a 90-degree view, without discoloring or spending an extra thousand dollars for a Leica f/2.8
russelljtdyer
Writer
Begging for a Test Photo
Begging for a Test Photo
I appreciate all of the assurances from many here that there is no problem with using the Voigtlander f/4 21mm lens with a Leica M9. The photos showing objects look good, but it's difficult to see for sure. The black and white photos don't help since color is eliminated.
I'm begging for a test photo of a well lit, white wall. It would be clearer. If it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate it if someone who has this lens and this camera would take a simple photo of a white wall like Ken Rockwell did and post it here. His photo is pretty conclusive that he's right. The problem is that his photo was taken before a few firmware updates and without coding the lens as a Leica 21mm lens. So please make and post a fresh test.
Thanks,
Russell
Begging for a Test Photo
I appreciate all of the assurances from many here that there is no problem with using the Voigtlander f/4 21mm lens with a Leica M9. The photos showing objects look good, but it's difficult to see for sure. The black and white photos don't help since color is eliminated.
I'm begging for a test photo of a well lit, white wall. It would be clearer. If it's not too much trouble, I'd appreciate it if someone who has this lens and this camera would take a simple photo of a white wall like Ken Rockwell did and post it here. His photo is pretty conclusive that he's right. The problem is that his photo was taken before a few firmware updates and without coding the lens as a Leica 21mm lens. So please make and post a fresh test.
Thanks,
Russell
Lss
Well-known
It's indeed a very good combination, but requires coding (which I don't have) or fixing in post.
hepcat
Former PH, USN
Russel, my first question is this: Just how often are you planning to shoot plain white walls with your 21mm lens? While this may be an issue when bench testing (such as your linked photo) it appears that owners of the lens don't seem to be troubled by it in actual use.
I don't have a 21/f4 Skopar, I have the 21mm f/1.8 Ultron. I'd be happy to do such a test for you with my 21, but I also don't have any white walls in my house. I did, however, recently have the occasion to do some interior shots of an apartment I own with the 21mm f/1.8 and this is one of them. It's about as close as I can come to the white wall test in a real-world scene. It is pretty much OOC, although I may have adjustd the WB a little in PP to get the carpet closer to its actual color. It would have been shot with auto WB. I did not bother to correct horizontals and verticals in Lightroom in this particular image. The walls, btw, are painted an off-white. Any differences you see in color across this image I attribute to uneven lighting temperature rather than lens performance. The hallway is lit by the south sun while the windows on the left and near wall on the right are lit by a much colder north window light. This would have been taken without the UV/IR cut filter I normally keep on the lens. I would, without hesitation, recommend the 21mm f/1.8 to you. While it is a larger lens than the 21 f/4, it's not objectionably large. I do not have this lens coded in my M9P at all.
L1008228 by chief1120, on Flickr
I don't have a 21/f4 Skopar, I have the 21mm f/1.8 Ultron. I'd be happy to do such a test for you with my 21, but I also don't have any white walls in my house. I did, however, recently have the occasion to do some interior shots of an apartment I own with the 21mm f/1.8 and this is one of them. It's about as close as I can come to the white wall test in a real-world scene. It is pretty much OOC, although I may have adjustd the WB a little in PP to get the carpet closer to its actual color. It would have been shot with auto WB. I did not bother to correct horizontals and verticals in Lightroom in this particular image. The walls, btw, are painted an off-white. Any differences you see in color across this image I attribute to uneven lighting temperature rather than lens performance. The hallway is lit by the south sun while the windows on the left and near wall on the right are lit by a much colder north window light. This would have been taken without the UV/IR cut filter I normally keep on the lens. I would, without hesitation, recommend the 21mm f/1.8 to you. While it is a larger lens than the 21 f/4, it's not objectionably large. I do not have this lens coded in my M9P at all.
L1008228 by chief1120, on Flickr
jip
Member
The new Voightlaender 21mm ultron, is really good.
CrisR
Well-known
I had both. I now have the Zeiss 25mm and 18mm lenses, which I'm far happier with, even tho they're larger.
russelljtdyer
Writer
A Test Photo
A Test Photo
Thanks hepcat for posting the photo of the apartment with white walls. To me, there seems to me to be a slight color shift towards red in the bottom left corner and a shift towards blue in the top right corner. It's difficult to see, though, because of the lighting variations due to the angles of the walls and the position of the window.
I searched the web for photos taken with the Leica M9 and a Voigtlander f/4 20mm lens. I found one taken of a white wall as a test shot by Matthew Osborne. He gave me permission to post his photo here. In this photo you can see the discoloration: a reddish tint on the left and a greenish blue tint on the right end.
It was taken in August of 2013. He has more recent upgrades of the firmware, but not the latest of the time. He doesn't know which lens profile he used for the shot. So, maybe if he had the latest updates and used the correct profile, the problem would have been resolved. Again, if someone has all of the firmware upgrades and the lens, it would be nice if you'd post a test photo.
You pose a good question, hepcat, about how often I will use this lens. When I had a Canon EOS camera with a Zeiss 21mm ZE lens and a few others, I used the 21mm lens for specific needs: grand landscapes and for interior shots in which I wanted to show the furnishings and layout of a room. Sometimes I would take only the 21mm lens with me on a trip. I enjoyed the results when I limited myself to this one lens. So I'd like a lens that will perform well in color and won't require me to have to fix the images it creates with CornerFix or other software. If I know it has this limitation, I will be less likely to use it. I've learned that it's better to get the lens that I'm most likely to use and keep, than to get one for now that I will replace in a short time because of its shortcomings. I've done that too many times and thereby wasted too much money as a result. Unless someone posts a good test shot here, I think I'm better off spending the extra money on a Leica f/2.8 21mm lens or a Zeiss Biogon f/2.8 21mm ZM lens.
Thanks to everyone for tolerating my annoying style and for your responses.
-Russell
A Test Photo
Thanks hepcat for posting the photo of the apartment with white walls. To me, there seems to me to be a slight color shift towards red in the bottom left corner and a shift towards blue in the top right corner. It's difficult to see, though, because of the lighting variations due to the angles of the walls and the position of the window.
I searched the web for photos taken with the Leica M9 and a Voigtlander f/4 20mm lens. I found one taken of a white wall as a test shot by Matthew Osborne. He gave me permission to post his photo here. In this photo you can see the discoloration: a reddish tint on the left and a greenish blue tint on the right end.
It was taken in August of 2013. He has more recent upgrades of the firmware, but not the latest of the time. He doesn't know which lens profile he used for the shot. So, maybe if he had the latest updates and used the correct profile, the problem would have been resolved. Again, if someone has all of the firmware upgrades and the lens, it would be nice if you'd post a test photo.
You pose a good question, hepcat, about how often I will use this lens. When I had a Canon EOS camera with a Zeiss 21mm ZE lens and a few others, I used the 21mm lens for specific needs: grand landscapes and for interior shots in which I wanted to show the furnishings and layout of a room. Sometimes I would take only the 21mm lens with me on a trip. I enjoyed the results when I limited myself to this one lens. So I'd like a lens that will perform well in color and won't require me to have to fix the images it creates with CornerFix or other software. If I know it has this limitation, I will be less likely to use it. I've learned that it's better to get the lens that I'm most likely to use and keep, than to get one for now that I will replace in a short time because of its shortcomings. I've done that too many times and thereby wasted too much money as a result. Unless someone posts a good test shot here, I think I'm better off spending the extra money on a Leica f/2.8 21mm lens or a Zeiss Biogon f/2.8 21mm ZM lens.
Thanks to everyone for tolerating my annoying style and for your responses.
-Russell
Clark.EE
Well-known
I have a 25 Snapshot Skopar & the Super wide 15.
I think I prefer the results from the 15.
Heart never quite got into the Zone focus of the 25.
Focus never quite there.
Maybe it was a bad example.
Maybe it was just me!
Maybe try again with the Xpro1.
First pic is with the 15 at Machu Picchu.
Some shading in the corners (It has been very simply corrected in LR).
Train is in Bolivia, near the Salt flats 15 again. (Both M9)
Salt flats again. Salar de Uyuni.
Coded as 21 Elmarit.
Take into consideration that All these pics were taken at altitude.
Machu Picchu is 1800m.
Salt flats in Bolivia are on the Altiplano. Nearly 3700m.
Hence the amazing Skies.
If you get the chance go......
I think I prefer the results from the 15.
Heart never quite got into the Zone focus of the 25.
Focus never quite there.
Maybe it was a bad example.
Maybe it was just me!
Maybe try again with the Xpro1.
First pic is with the 15 at Machu Picchu.
Some shading in the corners (It has been very simply corrected in LR).
Train is in Bolivia, near the Salt flats 15 again. (Both M9)
Salt flats again. Salar de Uyuni.
Coded as 21 Elmarit.
Take into consideration that All these pics were taken at altitude.
Machu Picchu is 1800m.
Salt flats in Bolivia are on the Altiplano. Nearly 3700m.
Hence the amazing Skies.
If you get the chance go......
Attachments
That's classic "italian flag syndrome", Russell. It seems to be caused by the steep angle of light hitting the sensor. This is affected by the optical construction of the lens. Lenses built to minimize this angle can avoid this problem. It seems worst on older smaller wide lens designs like the f/3.4 Super Angulon, and the f/4.5 C-Biogon 21mm, and avoided with retrofocus wides from SLRs for instance. I believe the latest wide lenses (18, 21, 24mm) from Leica have been made to address this issue too.
FWIW, I have been seeing this same thing with the M240, though I think its sensor's shallow site wells reduce the intensity.
FWIW, I have been seeing this same thing with the M240, though I think its sensor's shallow site wells reduce the intensity.
ayewing
Member
I have the 25mm f4 Skopar and used it on my M9 (now sold) and more recently on my M240. On both cameras there is fairly noticeable colour shift at the sides of the images. This is easily dealt with using Cornerfix, a free program that is very quick and easy to use once you have set up a profile for the lens.
On cameras with smaller sensors there is no problem. I use it on my Ricoh GXR with A12 M mount though of course as the sensor is APS-C the lens behaves like a 37mm due to the crop factor.
On cameras with smaller sensors there is no problem. I use it on my Ricoh GXR with A12 M mount though of course as the sensor is APS-C the lens behaves like a 37mm due to the crop factor.
Similar threads
