Would you buy the new Fuji Range Finder?

[Thardy]

Hasselblad large? Nah, Mamiya RZ and RBs are large. Hasselblads are tiny.

 

[Solinar]

Please don't mention the Hassy SWC or you will be giving me gas.

Frank is right about strengths and weaknesses. I ride a bicycle to work and run errands with everyday. Which medium format camera should I take with me?

 

[amateriat]

Frank is right about strengths and weaknesses. I ride a bicycle to work and run errands with everyday. Which medium format camera should I take with me?

Bingo.


- Barrett

 

[vdonovan]

I wonder if they are going to follow CV's Bessa example and go for a lower price point and create some medium format mania? If you think of the Holga as a gateway drug into medium format, it would be smart to put out a camera that's a step up but not a bank-breaker. If it sells well (as CV's Bessa R did) then they have a ready market to make another step up in a few years.

I've been looking for a MF folder for a while but now I'm going to stop looking and wait and see about the Fuji.

 

[FrankS]

Hard to say about pent up demand. It is a unique camera though. If you want a modern folding 6x7 camera, this would be the only game in town. Many of the vintage folders (delicate to begin with due to the folding design) have mechanical issues. None of them offer a built in meter with AE. Digital is competing more directly with 35mm film. A MF negative will still give you much more quality than a digital file from existing dSLRs and RF digi cams, and the camera is more compact than a dSLR to boot. There is definitely a niche for it, IMO.

Like I said before: a folding Fuji GW670ll/lll with metering and AE; what more could you want? (Okay, maybe a wide angle version too.)

 

[Tuolumne]

I guess I'm just surprised that there is really a large enough market for a new 6x7 film camera that it would make any sense for a camera maker to market it, unless it was a boutique camera at a Leica price.

SM,
Perhaps that is what it will be. Kind of like the resurrected rangefinder that Nikon brought out in 2003.

/T

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

I guess I'm just surprised that there is really a large enough market for a new 6x7 film camera that it would make any sense for a camera maker to market it, unless it was a boutique camera at a Leica price.

Wonder why the Bronica 645 RF didn't make it if there's a market like that. A normal market, not a Holga or Prada variety of the market. More versatile, not that much bigger with two lenses than this folder and with lens designs and the optical rigidity to deliver the right IQ. It was withdrawn while it was already in the market. The mother company thought that making DSLR lenses brought them more.

As written it isn't that I do not like 120 folders but half the fun is the right deal to get them secondhand and the other half is that they fit my coat pocket. The rest takes more time and doesn't deliver a better IQ than a decent 10 MP digital DSLR. With 14 MP on an APS sensor (Pentax) it is time they deliver a digital rangefinder that is smaller than a 6X6 folder and comes close in quality to an MF film scanned. Both the Epson and the M8 are too expensive for real market share and unlike with DSLRs the viewfinder of a halfframe RF doesn't have to be smaller because the sensor is smaller. It will happen one day.


Ernst Dinkla

 

[Abbazz]

Wonder why the Bronica 645 RF didn't make it if there's a market like that.

I guess Bronica has never been very smart with marketing its products and it never managed to get the "pro" image that Mamiya got. The superb GS1, a rather compact 6x7 SLR, met exactly the same fate as the 645 RF: launched at a steep price, never met real success, then discounted, therefore causing the second hand market to collapse and badly damaging the image of the product in the eyes of the pros that did buy it at full price.

As written it isn't that I do not like 120 folders but half the fun is the right deal to get them secondhand and the other half is that they fit my coat pocket. The rest takes more time and doesn't deliver a better IQ than a decent 10 MP digital DSLR.

A folder with a decent lens is far more capable than a 10MP digital SLR. The DSLR might be more convenient to use, but a good folder in capable hands will still produce better pictures.

With 14 MP on an APS sensor (Pentax) it is time they deliver a digital rangefinder that is smaller than a 6X6 folder and comes close in quality to an MF film scanned. Both the Epson and the M8 are too expensive for real market share and unlike with DSLRs the viewfinder of a halfframe RF doesn't have to be smaller because the sensor is smaller. It will happen one day.

You admit that a 14MP digital rangefinder can come close in quality to an MF film scanned, therefore acknowledging the superior quality of MF film.

I do shoot digital and I agree regarding the need of a good affordable digital rangefinder with an APS sensor -- or even a good compact camera with live view -- but I will also be very happy to buy the new Fuji GF670, because I get great results shooting film and I like it.

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[kuzano]

I guess Bronica has never been very smart with marketing its products and it never managed to get the "pro" image that Mamiya got. The superb GS1, a rather compact 6x7 SLR, met exactly the same fate as the 645 RF: launched at a steep price, never met real success, then discounted, therefore causing the second hand market to collapse and badly damaging the image of the product in the eyes of the pros that did buy it at full price.



A folder with a decent lens is far more capable than a 10MP digital SLR. The DSLR might be more convenient to use, but a good folder in capable hands will still produce better pictures.



You admit that a 14MP digital rangefinder can come close in quality to an MF film scanned, therefore acknowledging the superior quality of MF film.

I do shoot digital and I agree regarding the need of a good affordable digital rangefinder with an APS sensor -- or even a good compact camera with live view -- but I will also be very happy to buy the new Fuji GF670, because I get great results shooting film and I like it.

Cheers!

Abbazz

I echo your comments exactly.

Every Bronica I owned and shot was a superior product that never received the marketing and support they should have from Bronica and/or Tamron. Superb glass, leaf shutters, dependable cameras, but unfound and largely ignored by professionals.

Any well built and properly used medium format camera will outshoot any and all 35mm frame and smaller digital sensors currently in the marketplace. The same photographer qualified in film and digital would have to cheat film to come to any other conclusion.

There are still many variations of digital sensors, focusing methods, etc, to be developed in digital before the final verdict is in, IF a verdict is what one is looking for.

If this new Fuji 670 comes in at a price between $1500 to $2000, it will still take a digital sensor capable of considerably more than 14 Mp, and a camera selling for in excess of $5000 to come close in image quality. Remember that a 6X7 and 6X9 color image delivers the equivalent of 25 to 35 megapixels of information.

I trust that Fuji will come through on this image quality, just as they did on my 25 yr old Fujica G690bl.

 

[Trius]

Would the demand for a 6x7 rangefinder be anywhere close to what the demand for the Bessa R was? Would it be enough to make it economical to produce? Is there a pent up 6x7 rangefinder market to revive like the Bessa did for the 35mm RF market?

Good questions, SM ... you're batting average isn't superb if the M8 upgrade is an indicator.

For one, I think Fuji might surprise us all. They have the deep pockets to take a flier on this.

 

[Abbazz]

As far as the 6x7 goes, I still can't imagine much of a market for a slow fixed lens, folding film 6x7 rangefinder camera, other than as a boutique camera or an expensive toy for those with some cash left over after upgrading that M8

Sitemistic, I cannot help wondering why you are losing your time reading this forum...

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[Doug]

I don't know about others, but I am very interested in medium format cameras, perhaps including folders, but find speculative financial and marketing analysis tiresome.

 

[Tuolumne]

I don't know about others, but I am very interested in medium format cameras, perhaps including folders, but find speculative financial and marketing analysis tiresome.

I think it's all quite interesting and I think SM usually has some very thoughtful and good ideas, which is to say I usually agree with him.

As we have seen with Nikon's dalliance with a re-introduced limited edition rangefinder, these little forays don't necessarily mean that the camera maker believes there is a huge market for the camera or that there is a new market in the making. They can do it as a one-off for any number of reasons that don't include world dominance. I do think this is what we are seeing with this MF folder. Nothing to get one's undies in a knot over, though.

/T

 

[Iskra 2]

An Iskra 2 is a good example of the perfect folder format, IMHO. 6x6 is big enough (remember the funny postures of people trying to take a vertical format pix). A simple film wind scheme is important. Unit focusing lens. Yashica Electro shutter and exposure control.

........... and, while I'm dreaming, add a 120 E6 developing option to the Fuji processors in WalMart.

Here's some Astia 100 in my Iskra 2.

 

[kuzano]

Very nice shot....

Very nice shot....

An Iskra 2 is a good example of the perfect folder format, IMHO. 6x6 is big enough (remember the funny postures of people trying to take a vertical format pix). A simple film wind scheme is important. Unit focusing lens. Yashica Electro shutter and exposure control.

........... and, while I'm dreaming, add a 120 E6 developing option to the Fuji processors in WalMart.

Here's some Astia 100 in my Iskra 2.

And FAR better than any 10 to 14 Megapixel image I've seen lately.

 

[Iskra 2]

And FAR better than any 10 to 14 Megapixel image I've seen lately.

Thanks, the light was "right".

120 Astia (any E6) is a pain to work with, but worth it.

 

[wlewisiii]

I really need to get another Iskra. Selling mine was the single biggest photographic mistake I have ever made... :bang:

William

 

[vdonovan]

Don't get one! Wait for the new Fuji!

I applaud Fuji. Instead of whining and watching their film business collapse (like a certain yellow competitor) they are at least going out swinging, trying to develop their assets rather than watch them wither. Someone here pointed out that Fuji can't sell film if people don't have cameras. At least they are trying to get cameras out there, which is why I think (I hope) the price might be closer to $500 than $1000. The goal is to get cameras into people's hands and burn some film. It's possible that they've seen an uptick in 120 sales since the Holga came out and thought hmmmmm...

Is there a market? CV has surprised everyone with the Bessa series. In retrospect the Bessas make perfect sense, but no one else had the guts to do it. Fuji has already seen one retro camera business succeed (two if you count Holga) so they are pretty smart to jump on that small bandwagon.

Let me be clear: I don't believe that film will ever come back as a mass consumer or professional product. But I do believe that there is an artist/hobbyist market out there that is big enough for some smart companies to put out interesting products and make some money.

 

[Krosya]

Abbazz, I'm interested in this stuff. I own film MF equipment. I think any development where a company is showing a prototype MF camera is interesting, since it is MF that took the big hit from digital. Where is the market you have to wonder. Pro photographers (weddings, events, etc) were the primary users of MF until they went to digital and dumped all their MF gear onto eBay at pennies on the dollar. If pros are not the target market for Fugi with this 6x7, then who is? Likely not snapshot shooters, it's overkill at a high film and processing cost. Who is left? Is that a sufficient market to make a $1,000 camera to recoup the investment, or will the numbers be so small that it has to cost $5,000?

Don't you find this stuff interesting?

Well, while we don't know how much this camera will cost, I can tell you this:
I love folders and own a couple of them. Since I got interested in them, I kinda keep an eye on what is out there and how much it goes for. There are some folders, such as Bessa II with Heliar lens that still sell for over $1K. And there are some others. Some sell for more, others for less. But there is fair amount of interest in folders out there - be that collectors or just photographers that want to try something different. And most are not Pros. And these are the people that will be interested to see this folder in thier collection, I think.
Think about it, not just Pros buy expensive and unusual camera equipment. Or do you think that only Pros own Noctilux or Asph Summilux type lenses? No,- regular people spend that kind of money too. I own some pro level things too, yet I'm not a pro photographer. It's a hobby and more often than not people are willing to spend some serious money on it. I have a friend who belongs to a ferrari club. He is not a professional racer, yet he has one.
Going back to this Fuji camera - I hope it'll be made and I hope it'll be good. I sure would like to try it. Folders are not for everyone, just like rangefinders are not for everyone, but I like them. As well as many others.
So, whatever reason Fuji has for bring out this camera at this time - I'm happy to see them do it!

 

[pvdhaar]

Voted Yes, though price may be an issue.

I've owned an MF SLR in the past. Got rid of it because it was so heavy and large that I never took it along. Big shame because the image quality was so darn good. If the price isn't outrageous, I'm definately interested.