Your manual camera is really shutter priority! Electros - best cameras EVER?

I recently bought a GTN to hold me over until my M6 came back from repairs and I honestly didn't even like to use it. The lens is great and the exposure is easy and accurate but that didn't change the fact that I could barely see anything through the viewfinder, much less be able to focus with the terrible RF patch.

The way I shoot, I set the aperture to my desired setting and adjust shutter speed as needed (you call it aperture priority) and have absolutely no trouble. It even allows me to focus and set the shutter speed at the same time, thus speeding up my process and increasing my chance of getting the shot.

The Electro is a fun little camera but 'best ever' it is not. I prefer my M6, F100, A1, and even my POS D50 over it.
 
NickTrop said:
...No other camera - Leicas, Contaxes, Hexars, Zeissesses, Voigtlander-branded Cosinas... regardless of cost gives you the amount of speed required for "decisive moment capture" in combination with the level of aesthetic control, as a photograhic tool, than the RF+aperture priority design of the Electro series.
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Huh? What about the Leica M7, Hexar RF & Zeiss Ikon? They all have aperture priority and manual operation, and I daresay are far superior to the Yashica. Now, if you want to say that the Yashica is the best 35mm camera for under 50 bucks, I'll give you that one.;)
 
NickTrop said:
Yes. That's because it's these are the only cameras I know of that have both the aperture and shutter speed settings on the lens barrel. So you can - with practice, leave the SS fixed and rotate the aperture for aperture priority; leave the aperture fixed and rotate the shutter speed (because of where it's located) for shutter priority, or move them together for aperture and shutter speed combos up and down the scale. It is not designed as a "manual camera but really a shutter priority camera because the shutter speed control is located in a position that defeats the purpose so everyone uses it as a shutter priority camera" virtually shutter priority camera.

But that's a rant for another day.
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I think there might be another example to consider. I don't know if I am remembering this right, but I believe it is the Agfa Silettes I am thinking of. The aperture control and shutter speed controls are physically linked and both are on the lens barrel. Changing either one also changes the other. Some of the Silettes were rangefinders. However, the ones with automatic functions were powered by selenium cells and most of the ones you see now don't work anymore because the cell died. There are a few still working, but they are scarce and getting scarcer.

No doubt about it that the G-series are very good cameras though. I've bought dozens over the years. I think every really good friend I have ever had has gotten an overhauled G as a gift.
 
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NickTrop said:
Betchya 99% of users, if they're honest, use their coupled meter "manual" cameras exactly as if they're shutter priority cameras.
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I do, I do.. this is why I'm looking for an AE RF Camera with aperture priority, like R3A/R4A or M7 (maybe a used one..)

Cheers,
Rob.
 
FallisPhoto said:
I think there might be another example to consider. I don't know if I am remembering this right, but I believe it is the Agfa Silettes I am thinking of. The aperture control and shutter speed controls are linked and both are on the lens barrel. Changing either one also changes the other. Some of the Silettes are rangefinders.
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Virtually all of the 1950's through 1960's fixed-lens rangefinders had both the aperture and the shutter speed on the lens barrel, so Nick was way, way, off on that.

As to the locked controls - that's the nefarious LVS system. Many people absolutely hate and despise that system, but I like it.

Here is how it works:

1) You get a light meter reading in EV (from an integrated meter if it has one, or from an external meter).

2) You unlock (usually by pushing or pulling or something like that) the aperture/shutter speed combo so you can make the "EV" setting on top of the lens barrel change - you change it to whatever your EV meter reading is.

3) You let go of the unlock feature - which usually locks the aperture and shutter back together again.

Now, when you turn the combined ring - both aperture and shutter speed change at the same time - but they are locked at that EV level. That means that no matter how you turn it, your exposure will be correct if your EV light reading was correct.

So on a sunny day - I might have an EV reading of 15 for ISO 100 film (maybe higher). I set EV 15 on my lens barrel, and notice that it is set to 1/125 @ f/16. If I turn the combined ring one click, I find a shutter speed of 1/250 @ f/8. Turn it the other way two clicks and find 1/60 @ f/22.

LVS was a pretty cool idea. So cool that many companies that made fixed-lens rangefinders went for it.

But many modern-day users despise it. Too bad - I think it's great.

And the nice little pocket-sized modern Gossen Digisix is just made for this system - it reads out in EV.
 
I just emailed wiht Mark Hama for a CLA and overhaul of my GS.
He can upgrade it to a GSN for an additional $25...worth it?
Also, he said the work(CLA and all) would ONLY take one week.
 
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I sort of quit reading the rant since it didn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

I assume he is exercising cognitive disonnance about his purchase of a YE35 over a Canonet???

I own seven YE35 cameras and my GS was my first film camera that slingshotted me into this stupid hobby.

I own a Canonet as well.

I also have a whole myriad of cheap and not so cheap RF gear and none of what he was ranting about made any sense.

Why did I ever buy other cameras after my Yashica? I wanted to change the lenses. I wanted something physically smaller (canonet!) and I wanted something newer and nicer (Bessa R2A.)

My canonet spanks all of my Yashicas as far as lens sharpness goes. I'd put the Canonet up against my 40mm Nokton.

YE35 cameras are great in that they offer something different from nearly all other cameras. Aperture priority out past 30 seconds, metered! You can use the wrong voltage battery and they still work great!

They suffer from quality issues after all these years. Nearly all of mine are broken in some different manner. They are big and clunky. Just not built as well as a Canon or other similar competition.

When using the camera (which I think was the original gauntlet throwdown) I find that I can shoot faster with the Bessa R*A cameras because the viewfinder and rangefinder patch are so much sharper and clearer. And in both cases, I've set the aperture and let the camera do it's magic with shutter speeds.

In closing, there is no such thing as 'best camera' in a sense that it can be applied to every human on the planet. And it's posts like these that sort of make me not even want to converse with others on here since the closed-minded types seem to proliferate nearly every forum on the board.
 
I have had the GT and GS for a couple of years now and I would prefer the option of a hot shoe but it hasn't been a deal breaker at all. I generally shoot available light with a rangefinder, especially one with fast glass like the Electros. I have even bought a GSN or two that arrived in such condition that I could not fix them. I have the top of a GSN that I keep meaning to put on the GS but I have not been obsessed enough to do it (YET). If you shoot a lot with flash, the upgrade would make sense.

The best camera is the one that you have with you. Even a pinhole camera is better than no camera! And, I like pinhole cameras.
 
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underbyte said:
I have had the GT and GS for a couple of years now and I would prefer the option of a hot shoe but it hasn't been a deal breaker at all. I generally shoot available light with a rangefinder, especially one with fast glass like the Electros. I have even bought a GSN or two that arrived in such condition that I could not fix them. I have the top of a GSN that I keep meaning to put on the GS but I have not been obsessed enough to do it (YET). If you shoot a lot with flash, the upgrade would make sense.
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Thanks for the answer. I'm not a flash user. Available light all the way so I guess if that is the only change then it doesnt make sense for me to do. I'll stick with the GS then. cant wait to have Mark Hama overhaul it.
Sending it this week.
 
bmattock said:
I said I set the aperture. But I also balance that against the shutter speed and the speed of my film / filter combo. In any case, although I am one who often agrees with you that aperture is my preferred knob for creative control, there is so much more - photography is nothing if not a set of compromises. Aperture is not the most crucial control - that bit is located in my skull.

Is this a test of some kind? I usually find you to be quite sensible.
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What I know about Nick is he sometimes isn't quite sensible where Electo's are involved.
 
NickTrop said:
These cameras may give you that crucial capability, but fall short due to their lack of a stepless shutter - so their exposures are less accurate than the Electros (you can quibble about minor variances in "lens tests" so I'll quibble about inaccuracies up to 1/2 a stop theoretically with non-stepless shutters)
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Sorry, but I have never seen an aperture priority AE camera that adjusts the shutter speed in increments of 1 f-stop - as you imply. They are all more or less stepless - though they might not show that in the viewfinder.
 
Is there a difference between the max ISO on the GS and GSN? I know the GT has ISO 400 or maybe 800 as the maximum, and as Nick confirmed, ISO 1000 for the GSN. If the GS has a lower maximum ISO setting, that might be worth the upgrade.
 
bmattock said:
As to the locked controls - that's the nefarious LVS system. Many people absolutely hate and despise that system, but I like it. ... LVS was a pretty cool idea. So cool that many companies that made fixed-lens rangefinders went for it.

But many modern-day users despise it. Too bad - I think it's great.

And the nice little pocket-sized modern Gossen Digisix is just made for this system - it reads out in EV.
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I use a Gossen Luna Pro digital F (pretty much the same meter), I have a Silette and a Super Silette (I have an Ansco Super Memar floating around here somewhere too, but I don't remember if that has it or not), and I agree. Once you have the exposure correctly set, and locked in, pretty much anything you do after that will give you an equivalent exposure. I love my Gossen too.
 
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NickTrop said:
Not really a strange rant - I don't think.

A. I'm talking about cameras with coupled light meters. Most cameras - film/35mm.

B. Most cameras that have manual capabilities that are of this type (built-in meters) are used exclusively as shutter priority by their users. An SLR. You set shutter speed, varying it only if there's not enough light, too much light. You accept whatever aperture the camera gives you, you shoot.

C. If you wanted to shoot at F4, but your shutter speed it too high/too low, it takes too long to re-set the shutter speed up or down to get that particular aperture. The moment is lost. Doesn't matter so much if it's a still life or a landscape. I'm talking RF-style photography. Candids, available light, decisive moments.

D. If I want to shoot at F4 - instantly, so's not to lose the moment, not care about the shutter, I set it at F4 and shoot - instantly. I get the bokeh or DOF I want, the image characteristics I want instantly, at exactly the aperture I want. The scene is perfectly metered in fractions of stops because of its stepless shutter. More bokeh? F2.9, F2 - whatever. Greater DOF? F8. I do this instantly. The camera perfectly adjusts the stepless shutter in fractions of stops much faster and much less cumbersome as to be impracticle with "manual cameras" - which by their design, are functionally shutter priority cameras.

Think about it...
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E. the picture is actually blurred because your camera (well, I have too a pair of electros...) chose a too slow shutter speed. Yes there is the red arrow, but if you shoot street life scenes, it's very easy to get a blurred shot.

Ap. Pr. has pro and cons.
 
1: My main manual lens is an old Elmar. Easier to change the shutter.

2: Who needs a silly rangefinder when they can use a Trip 35, prefocused to "group"? Faster'n lightnin'.
 
I for one enjoyed this thread a lot! There was some HEAT in it! :) And I liked hearing so many people's thinking about what goes on in their minds when they go out on the street and try to capture something interesting. A nice change from what is often discussed here on RFF... which I wouldn't call emotional, or "from the gut".

In celebration of this thread, I took my Yashica Electro GX off eBay today and instead took it out for walk in S.F.. It is indeed a wonderful little camera that lets me pay attention to the quickly passing scene. Long live aperture-priority! :)
 
Logorrheic balderdash.

When I take candids, I set the shutter speed AND the aperture in advance to whatever setting I like because I know the light won't change between the moment I set my camera and the moment at which I take the shot.
 
mhv said:
Logorrheic balderdash.

When I take candids, I set the shutter speed AND the aperture in advance to whatever setting I like because I know the light won't change between the moment I set my camera and the moment at which I take the shot.
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Well, one hopes not, anyway. I was once flattened by Skylab falling on me. I distinctly recall the shadow of the falling laboratory disturbing my metering before I was crushed to death.
 
aad said:
1: My main manual lens is an old Elmar. Easier to change the shutter.

2: Who needs a silly rangefinder when they can use a Trip 35, prefocused to "group"? Faster'n lightnin'.
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Olympus-35 EC, even better. Exact same lens as the RC. 42mm E.Zuiko f/2.8. Set distance (the little viewfinder has the icons inside so you can set while the camera is at your eye) and press the shutter. Such a tiny little thing, too.
 
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