cmedin
Well-known
Sorry, Nick, you're 100% wrong. I always decide on aperture and fiddle with shutter speed afterwards on my all-manual cameras; on the automagic ones I leave them permanently in aperture priority mode.NickTrop said:
PS: it helps to pre-set the aperture and shutter speed for the environment if you want 'action' shots.
PPS: It's certainly faster and easier to change shutter speeds on my Leica gear than flipping the lens towards me so I can see what the aperture's at and adjust it.
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NickTrop
Veteran
cmedin said:
Impossible!
As I already mentioned, I declared myself "infallible". What I say is true by virtue of my having said it.
NickTrop
Veteran
PS... I received a PM today from someone who, upon reading my thread, delisted their Electro from eBay, which they put up because they had two other cameras. A "high end" RF and a DSLR. My assertions reconfirmed what this person intrinsically knew.
The equation?
Aperture priority + RF + a "beyond good enough but not "the best" in a lens test fast lens (incredible price/performace ratio) = best camera ever made. Hands down, bar none - including pseudo-manual cameras, which are virtual shutter priority cameras.
This person "gets it".
The equation?
Aperture priority + RF + a "beyond good enough but not "the best" in a lens test fast lens (incredible price/performace ratio) = best camera ever made. Hands down, bar none - including pseudo-manual cameras, which are virtual shutter priority cameras.
This person "gets it".
bmattock
Veteran
NickTrop said:
I will have two of whatever you're drinking. In fact, I may have just done.
Besides, I've just finished doing my taxes. Gruel for all my men!
mhv
Registered User
bmattock said:
When I get crushed by the Skylab, I always plan ahead!
bmattock
Veteran
mhv said:
Showoff!
NickTrop
Veteran
bmattock said:
Diet Pepsi. Not that I don't indulge in a libation or five or seven from time to time.
--
I'm feeling a little like Galileo trying to convince the church that the world is round.
... like Copernicus when he asserted his heliocentric cosmolog displacing the Earth from the center of the universe.
... like Nobel Prize winner Al Gore trying to convince conservative radio talk show hosts of the reality of climate change.
Now I know how these cats felt.
|
You are all defending your "flat earth" models. I am correct. You are resisting the paradigm shift which is shattering your illusion of truth. Besides, I'm infallible.
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bmattock
Veteran
NickTrop said:
My friend Jack is very kind to me.
In your heart, you know it's flat.
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
The Earth is not the center of the universe. I am.
Yeah, but they were like, sane, and stuff.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
bmattock said:
The center of the universe is in fact located in my navel...
Either that, or Washington DC.
NickTrop
Veteran
bmattock said:
You are making the fatal mistake of confusing GENIUS - no, make that Wile E. Coyote-level SUPER GENIUS with insanity. The center of the RF universe is....
...not BMattock
... not Al Patterson's navel...
It's...
... the ELECTRO!
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PhotoMat
Well-known
The downside of being better that everyone else is that people tend to assume you're pretentious.
http://www.demotivators.com/viewall.html
http://www.demotivators.com/viewall.html
jan normandale
Film is the other way
mmmmm mmm mmmm another days aging has made this "cab sauv" even fuller bodied than I thought possible... "Waiter bring me fulsome glass!"
moretto
EFKE Lover
NickTrop said:
Nick, Your posts are the best thing that can happen to a guy who got an Electro two days ago, and has athe first roll of film to develop. So I bought the center of the universe!!! Can't wait to tell my 5000€ canonist DSLR friends to feel free to circle around me.
NickTrop
Veteran
PhotoMat said:
One never has to worry about being viewed as "pretentious" if you're walking around with a groovy Yashica Electro. (Leica? That's another matter...) In fact, if you are pretentious, a quick cure is to always walk around with an Electro strapped around your neck.
If you want to be even less pretentious, walk around with a Zorki...
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NickTrop
Veteran
moretto said:Nick, Your posts are the best thing that can happen to a guy who got an Electro two days ago, and has athe first roll of film to develop. So I bought the center of the universe!!! Can't wait to tell my 5000€ canonist DSLR friends to feel free to circle around me.
Here's a quick synopsis of "the rant" by way of analogy:
RF photography requires that the Aperture-Shutter Speed relationship be a master-slave relationship, with the Apeture as master, the shutter speed being the slave. Any RF camera that does not have this relationship built-in to the camera, is intrinsically inferior. Other cameras mentioned on this thread that have aperture-priority as a feature are inferior because:
1. They fail miserably to the Electro in "Price/Performance", with an Electro costing 1/10th as these "system" cameras with negligible, if any, marginal improvement of other camera's lenses in "lens tests" but not in actual use.
2. The other "modes" of these cameras "confuse things" unnecessarily. They're the camera equivalent of "bloatware" with features added just for the sake of adding them, to "oh and ah" the ininformed, to sell product. Aperture-priority is all you need - a requirement, for RF-style photography. Everything else is extraneous.
3. Other older coupled light-meter "manual" cameras (slrs, and rangefinders), are really "virtual shutter priority" cameras by design and are far, far, far slower than the Electro s'so to be "irrelevant". This is because with the Electro, you set the aperture on the lens barrel. The camera figures out the shutter speed, "master-slave"-style. They way is should be, the only way it can be. In virtual shutter-priority so-called "manual" cameras, if you want to do this, you have to set the aperture, then awkwardly and slowly futz with the shutter-speed dial next to the film advance for proper exposure. With the Electro, you set aperture and shoot...
4. Fast - it offers you complete "creative control" over the most important aspect of image rendering, the aperture.
5. It meters in fractions of stops as only a stepless shutter can. So many of your other cameras - shutter priority and virtual shutter-priority (manual) cameras, might be off by up to 1/2 a stop. (Doesn't matter? Then why do people insist on rating the box speed of their film +/- 1/2-stop?)
(If you want to take cliched pics of a water droplet "frozen" in time (yawn), shoot with a different camera, like a DSLR with a 1/10,000 top shutter speed set on "shutter priority" mode.) Those of discount the Electro, do so probably because it "doesn't cost enough" to be taken seriously. Fact is, it "blows away" your non-aperture priority/non-stepless shutter camera for RF photography, regardless of manuacturer, mytique, and cost.
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
NickTrop said:
Yeah, but it's a GX, not a GSN/GTN -- nice camera, but lots of lens flare.
ully
ully
What Nick is suggesting is
What Nick is suggesting is
more likely a result of the history of using rules like "sunny sixteen" and "reciprocal of lens lengths". I often set shutter speed to sunny sixteen just for ease of use, only tweaking it for faster action situations. I use the Konica Auto s2 and Minolta himatic 7 manual cameras and set speed first to give me full range of aperture settings.
The old Lynx 5000 was a different breed because it had coupled speed and apeture rings with over under meter.
Generally I agree with Nick on the fact that most will use the manual cameras this way.
Cheers
What Nick is suggesting is
more likely a result of the history of using rules like "sunny sixteen" and "reciprocal of lens lengths". I often set shutter speed to sunny sixteen just for ease of use, only tweaking it for faster action situations. I use the Konica Auto s2 and Minolta himatic 7 manual cameras and set speed first to give me full range of aperture settings.
The old Lynx 5000 was a different breed because it had coupled speed and apeture rings with over under meter.
Generally I agree with Nick on the fact that most will use the manual cameras this way.
Cheers
Anupam
Well-known
Arguably, the most important part of the image is exposure and the Electros offer you NO control over it. And depending on what you are shooting and the effect you are trying to get, shutter speed can be just as important as aperture.NickTrop said:
What eludes me is if you are so very particular about the accuracy of exposure, how come you are happy shooting everything at middle gray?NickTrop said:
-A
pesphoto
Veteran
Anupam Basu said:
Actually, with Electros, you CAN control shutter speed by adjusting your ASA dial. In effect, creating a "manual" camera of sorts and having more control over the outcome for certain scenes, avoiding that "middle Gray" you speak of if that is what is desired.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Nicky,
I am a shutter priority guy due to my needs of street shooting, where most of the times I am at a fixed 1/250 on daylight, or 1/50 by night, with my Kievs or whatever.
But I may be a strange byrd, and it doesn't matter.
However, owning several Electros, I have had always a ceirtain feeling that beyond the two lights warning and the aperture priority, there is an intelligent and straightforward way for manipulating exposure to be investigated and discovered. Now you may be thinking I am jocking, but I am not. It is just a feeling.
The story about selecting an aperture, and "leaving" the speed to the camera to take care of it, without you knowing what the camera is doing, sounds to me just silly.
Of course with the Electros you can know it upon reaching the extremes (lights) and starting a count down, but this is precisely whay I think a better way should be found. Perhaps it is about the use of a handheld meter from time to time to have a feeling of what the camera is going to do. Perhaps it is another thing.
Cheers,
Ruben
I am a shutter priority guy due to my needs of street shooting, where most of the times I am at a fixed 1/250 on daylight, or 1/50 by night, with my Kievs or whatever.
But I may be a strange byrd, and it doesn't matter.
However, owning several Electros, I have had always a ceirtain feeling that beyond the two lights warning and the aperture priority, there is an intelligent and straightforward way for manipulating exposure to be investigated and discovered. Now you may be thinking I am jocking, but I am not. It is just a feeling.
The story about selecting an aperture, and "leaving" the speed to the camera to take care of it, without you knowing what the camera is doing, sounds to me just silly.
Of course with the Electros you can know it upon reaching the extremes (lights) and starting a count down, but this is precisely whay I think a better way should be found. Perhaps it is about the use of a handheld meter from time to time to have a feeling of what the camera is going to do. Perhaps it is another thing.
Cheers,
Ruben
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