Vickko
Veteran
Yes, you can find black original early screw mounts, to around the III Model F's age.
But not likely M's.
But not likely M's.
I once found a non-working BP M2 for under $1k. It was featured on The Online Photographer about a year ago.
After I acquired it, I sent it to DAG for overhaul. Worked just as good as new after he was done. It ultimately ended up in Taiwan, selling for about $3500.
So, yes, it's possible, but a rare event.
After I acquired it, I sent it to DAG for overhaul. Worked just as good as new after he was done. It ultimately ended up in Taiwan, selling for about $3500.
So, yes, it's possible, but a rare event.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I'm with you. I like how an M4-P or M4-2 looks in black. A little fingervwear is pretty but I wouldn't go out of my way to buy it.
Jbig
Member
How much are good black paint repaints worth? I was once told by a Leica expert that it only increased the value of a Leica M2 by a couple hundred dollars.
chrishayton
Well-known
A black repaint m2/3 is worth around £700-1000 depending on overall quality of finish and condition
chrishayton
Well-known
http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=34_35&products_id=4264
Shame its an M1 but nearly fits the bill for the OP
Shame its an M1 but nearly fits the bill for the OP
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
It is possible to fit a M2 rangefinder in a M1. Dont know the cost of it though. I had it done several years ago and it worked fine. Could be the way to do it - though the M1 is obviously a repaint as to my knowledge Leica never made a black M1 (made green ones though).
Tadeyev
Member
Black paint
Black paint
As a user, not a collector, I used to wonder about all the fuss with BP bodies and the high prices.
But when I saw how old chrome bodies can look, it can be really unappealing, and even though a camera is a tool, you can also enjoy it, right? When the BP comes off, it is different, it's a character thing. I can accept it and it doesn't bug me at all - like do it yourself antiquing
And like a watch being polished during a service run, you can always have it re-done years down the line if you should want. A lot of people can do a good BP paint job; chrome is trickier.
The only real issue is that I would never pay high prices just to have a BP.
But…if you can get one cheaply, then they are really wonderful to use every day and not worry about…..
PS: Of all the BP out there, the M4 is still the most reasonable and findable. And indeed the M4 a fantastic Leica, in my opinion the best of all, combining M2 + M3 with fast film loading.
Black paint
As a user, not a collector, I used to wonder about all the fuss with BP bodies and the high prices.
But when I saw how old chrome bodies can look, it can be really unappealing, and even though a camera is a tool, you can also enjoy it, right? When the BP comes off, it is different, it's a character thing. I can accept it and it doesn't bug me at all - like do it yourself antiquing
And like a watch being polished during a service run, you can always have it re-done years down the line if you should want. A lot of people can do a good BP paint job; chrome is trickier.
The only real issue is that I would never pay high prices just to have a BP.
But…if you can get one cheaply, then they are really wonderful to use every day and not worry about…..
PS: Of all the BP out there, the M4 is still the most reasonable and findable. And indeed the M4 a fantastic Leica, in my opinion the best of all, combining M2 + M3 with fast film loading.
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NicoM
Well-known
The added value is usually equal to the cost of the repaint.
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
As a user, not a collector, I used to wonder about all the fuss with BP bodies and the high prices.
But when I saw how old chrome bodies can look, it can be really unappealing, and even though a camera is a tool, you can also enjoy it, right? When the BP comes off, it is different, it's a character thing. I can accept it and it doesn't bug me at all - like do it yourself antiquing
---.
Yeah, I guess so, but it's still just a $2000 chipping paint job
. My chrome M4 is starting to show hints of brass here and there on the corners - still looks OK, IMO. But I doubt all the scratches and rub marks (mostly by the previous owner who must have had a habit of using the poor thing ) on it would look better on BP.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Haven't we seen black paint M6 TTL's for near that? yes? No?
mosier
Newbie
I lucked out and grabbed an M6 TTL .85 LHAS 25 yr anniversary BP for 1700.00 the other day. I love it!
E__WOK
Well-known
Hmm, I don't want black paint that bad.
What does the paint look like over the chrome?
I can't wait until I reach your post count so I can give smart ass answers.
That sounds reasonable.
People have different tastes.
As a user, not a collector, I used to wonder about all the fuss with BP bodies and the high prices.
But when I saw how old chrome bodies can look, it can be really unappealing, and even though a camera is a tool, you can also enjoy it, right? When the BP comes off, it is different, it's a character thing. I can accept it and it doesn't bug me at all - like do it yourself antiquing
And like a watch being polished during a service run, you can always have it re-done years down the line if you should want. A lot of people can do a good BP paint job; chrome is trickier.
It's all relative. My Panerai is nowhere as accurate as a Timex but I enjoy wearing it and winding it every day.
philipus
ʎɐpɹəʇɥƃı&
Umm I disagree with the suggestion that LTMs are not good for picture taking. My II from 1931 is still working brilliantly. Naturally using these is different from Ms but they work really very well. Plus if one wants a black paint body (and I don't judge here - we all have different wishes and preferences) a Barnack is about the least expensive way to get one. The Leica II and III are wonderful (if I recall correctly the Leica IIIa also exists in black paint but is very rare).
My M6TTL BP cost much much less than an ALC MP. And my M4 cost 1700€ if my memory serves. It is true, though, that many dealers mark up the prices incredibly just because it is a "black paint" so one has to look around to find reasonable dealers.
The M4-P exists with both brass and zinc top plates and, unless I am entirely mistaken, black ones with brass top plates are painted.
For repainted M3s this seems too low, at least here in Europe.
pgk
Well-known
Well a UK dealer (I've bought from them in the past, no other connection) has one at £1099 - http://vintageclassiccamera.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=32&products_id=3291 which sound pretty good. And Peter Walnes (another UK dealer) has a black paint factory repainted M2 at £1240. These are substantially higher prices than chrome bodies, but if the camera has been stripped down for a 'proper' repaint, it would make sense to service it at the same time, so it would be reasonable to expect that this has been done which will also be added to the price/value.
Ruhayat
Well-known
Nope. I have one of the earlier brass-topped ones with the inset windows. It's black chrome, not painted. It wears down a bit like a gun does. Not wholly unattractive, however. That said, I'm hankering for a brassed black paint M9P.
sanmich
Veteran
You know, you're right on this one. I'm sorry for that.
Now what I really want to say is this:
I do understand that people have preferences about cosmetics, and clearly black paint has its aficionados.
But a modern BP leica MP and a BP Barnack from the thirties are just worlds apart, both in terms of functionality and of price.
Looking for either of them just because they are black paint, subordinating so much function to looks just doesn't make any sense to me.
That's what I meant in my smart ass answer.
Good luck.
philipus
ʎɐpɹəʇɥƃı&
Those are very good prices, I agree. Thanks for the information.
And thanks for clarifying this for me, I appreciate it. I was clearly misinformed.
Frontman
Well-known
Coincidentally enough, I found an original black-paint M4 today for a great price. Upon closer inspection, it turned out to be an M4-MOT, so I bought it before someone else did. The former owner "touched-up" the paint, but the L seal is intact, and the camera appears to be a good shooter. I'll put some film through it tomorrow and see how it works.
Sweet. This is the collector camera I would want, if I were in the market.