Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Considering how well the D700 does what I ask of it that seems unlikely and I'd be incredibly reluctant to part with my M mount lenses ... or my M2!
And I hated the way the auto focus futzed about on the X100 when I had it ... in fact auto focus generally doesn't impress me. I never use it on the D700!
nobbylon
Veteran
If you can live with the cost then the M9 is the right camera for you. Instant output, portability, lens use and enjoyment of usage are all covered.
I don't mind carrying the D700 even with the pro zooms I have but that's me.
I sold the M9 because it just didn't do it for me and bought another MP instead. Each to their own as they say but I like Leica's for film and Nikon's for digital.
I would buy another M9 but only when the price hits $2500 and sooner or later it will, that's the nature of digital. As for waiting for the M10, one can sit and wait forever and there will always be the next best thing but in the meantime you are missing photos.
The M9 is a great camera when it works as intended and I don't want to get into reliability issues but it's always in the background so one has to calculate into the equation the cost of repair if it needs them. I'd always want a solid warranty with a Leica digital.
I don't mind carrying the D700 even with the pro zooms I have but that's me.
I sold the M9 because it just didn't do it for me and bought another MP instead. Each to their own as they say but I like Leica's for film and Nikon's for digital.
I would buy another M9 but only when the price hits $2500 and sooner or later it will, that's the nature of digital. As for waiting for the M10, one can sit and wait forever and there will always be the next best thing but in the meantime you are missing photos.
The M9 is a great camera when it works as intended and I don't want to get into reliability issues but it's always in the background so one has to calculate into the equation the cost of repair if it needs them. I'd always want a solid warranty with a Leica digital.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Keith, I was in the very same position last year -- I have a D700 for work, and enjoy it for such, but could never think of using it on the weekends for 'personal' work, as I have no 'personal attachment' to it other than for work. And like you, I had a cabinet full of Leica glass, but wasn't really into using much film any more. Enter the Leica M9 -- yes, it's expensive, but look at all the pluses you'd get out of it. As far as the 'Leica M10' goes, it doesn't exist, except on 'rumors' sites. I've been waiting for the Nikon D800 for the last three years, and now finally it's being introduced this spring (supposedly!). Had I told myself not to buy the D700 because the D800 would be on the horizon, I'd still be using my D200 now and missing out on all that I accomplished over the last few years with my D700. So that wait for the mystical Leica M10 may be still a few years out, and you'll still be waiting. But who knows -- they could announce it next week for all I know.....
VinceC
Veteran
For what it's worth, I also shoot some SLR for work and RF for family/pleasure. I Often, for family photography, I use a Nikon D40 with a 35/1.8 lens, or one of my older pre-AI lenses with some focus guesswork. I also do several rolls of film per month with the RF cameras. Here in southern Germany, the Schlecker chain of drug stores does affordable one-week turnaround on processing, with prints and a CD of 1800x1200 scans. That's sufficient for what I do with my pleasure pix, and on rare occassion I'll do a higher resolution scan with my Nikon 4000 negative scanner. I'm moving back to the U.S. in a month or so and may have to resort to a mail-away service or else start developing my own B&W negs.
sebastel
coarse art umbrascriptor
whether this will help or not, i cannot tell ...
not so long time ago, i was doing the film stuff only. then, i happened to hold an M9 for a few minutes, and i immediately knew, this is the thing. if i want a digital RF, it must be M9. the epson was nice, but too limiting to me (difficulties with wide angle).
then, i stumbled over a used one at a price too nice when compared to new. i argued with myself for 5 minutes, and i bought it.
since then, it's fun again to go digital. it is not a replacement for film based photography, though. just the properties of "digital" combined with RF.
so, i can only recommend: go for it!
the M9 is a very useable camera, and no M10 will be able to change that.
cheers,
sebastian
not so long time ago, i was doing the film stuff only. then, i happened to hold an M9 for a few minutes, and i immediately knew, this is the thing. if i want a digital RF, it must be M9. the epson was nice, but too limiting to me (difficulties with wide angle).
then, i stumbled over a used one at a price too nice when compared to new. i argued with myself for 5 minutes, and i bought it.
since then, it's fun again to go digital. it is not a replacement for film based photography, though. just the properties of "digital" combined with RF.
so, i can only recommend: go for it!
the M9 is a very useable camera, and no M10 will be able to change that.
cheers,
sebastian
maddoc
... likes film again.
Hm ... I have a full-time day-job, a two-and-a-half old son who demands some time and are able to develop at least one roll of BW every second evening including scanning the film developed the day before ... Developing takes roughly 30 to 40 minutes and scanning about the same time (complete roll). If I would have to sit in front of a computer screen instead and flip through hundreds of digital images recorded with an M8 or M9 I would go mad I guess ... 
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Hm ... I have a full-time day-job, a two-and-a-half old son who demands some time and are able to develop at least one roll of BW every second evening including scanning the film developed the day before ... Developing takes roughly 30 to 40 minutes and scanning about the same time (complete roll). If I would have to sit in front of a computer screen instead and flip through hundreds of digital images recorded with an M8 or M9 I would go mad I guess ...
Dunno, don't think it's entirely mad, but I guess it all depends on what you get used to (and I'm sure Keith has had his share of darkroom time over the years, as many of us have). I mean, if you had 600 digital images shot (RAW), that would be two 8gb cards, and yes, it would take some time to go through them in either PhotoShop RAW or some other program (but could be done reasonably quickly if you knew what you were looking for). Downloading them from the card and onto your computer would take about 4 minutes. But, 600 images shot on 36 exp. Tri-X is about 17 rolls of film -- how long would that take to develop and then scan? Here again, depends on what you're used to, or what you at least grow used to.....having said that, I'm trying to motivate myself to develop film again!
maddoc
... likes film again.
Sure, if the amount of frames is high and maybe also color predominates then the M9 makes sense, a lot of sense. For the occasional BW frame (up to ten rolls per monh), I dunno ...
Gid
Well-known
This is not difficult.
You have M mount lenses that you like to use; you prefer the DoF from full frame; you like using RFs; you don't have time for film; you don't want to lug a large camera around.
There is only one camera that fits the bill - the M9. You can afford it, so just do it and start enjoying your recreational photography again. I look forward to seeing images from your m9 in the near future
You have M mount lenses that you like to use; you prefer the DoF from full frame; you like using RFs; you don't have time for film; you don't want to lug a large camera around.
There is only one camera that fits the bill - the M9. You can afford it, so just do it and start enjoying your recreational photography again. I look forward to seeing images from your m9 in the near future
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
This is not difficult.
You have M mount lenses that you like to use; you prefer the DoF from full frame; you like using RFs; you don't have time for film; you don't want to lug a large camera around.
There is only one camera that fits the bill - the M9. You can afford it, so just do it and start enjoying your recreational photography again. I look forward to seeing images from your m9 in the near future
You make it sound so simple Gid!
People need to remember that I spent two and a half years with an M8 and really liked the camera aside from the crop factor and the IR problem. I'm quite comfortable with the idea of a digital M ... just not the M8. And looking back that M8 cost me $6500 ... so I'm also used to being fleeced by Leica! LOL
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Keith,
Do you really think that *none* of the people who shoot with the 4/3rd system today care about isolating subjects to the degree that you do?
Not aiming this directly at you, but this kinda comment seems arrogant and makes no sense to me, and it's usually simply a reflection of conclusion by reading, not by personal experience.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Keith
I already have an M9 and I have recently been through a serious consideration of selling it or my film Ms (for the same reasons of time developing and scanning - good commercial scanning is to expensive in the UK too) and buying a Fuji X-Pro or dslr. In the end I decided not too for various reasons:
- High iso is appealing, but I've just come back from a weekend away with family and the M9 was able to do all I wanted and needed with the C-Sonnar on it.
- There is some really lovely work, colour partiularly, being done with the M9 and, whilst I agree that this could be done with other formats too, I've already got the M9
- I like using my one set of lenses interchangeably between the film and digital bodies
- I don't like the evfs I've seen to date
- I decided not to worry about the M10 and to keep the Mamiya 7 rather than fretting about a 45Mp Canon 5d3. Time is too short as it is.
If you want a good summation of the M9 then read my review on my blog or (much better) Dante's review of the M8. The key point he makes about the camera being good for making pictures of life remains absolutely spot on.
You should be aware that I do not think it's perfect. I get really irritated by the prriodic moire, the shutter cocking noise and the fact that it feels 'slow' (unlike a 1Ds3 or Zeiss Ikon). However, it is the only camera at this time that does what it does. I got a discount on mine from new - they are available.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you want to discuss further.
Mike
I already have an M9 and I have recently been through a serious consideration of selling it or my film Ms (for the same reasons of time developing and scanning - good commercial scanning is to expensive in the UK too) and buying a Fuji X-Pro or dslr. In the end I decided not too for various reasons:
- High iso is appealing, but I've just come back from a weekend away with family and the M9 was able to do all I wanted and needed with the C-Sonnar on it.
- There is some really lovely work, colour partiularly, being done with the M9 and, whilst I agree that this could be done with other formats too, I've already got the M9
- I like using my one set of lenses interchangeably between the film and digital bodies
- I don't like the evfs I've seen to date
- I decided not to worry about the M10 and to keep the Mamiya 7 rather than fretting about a 45Mp Canon 5d3. Time is too short as it is.
If you want a good summation of the M9 then read my review on my blog or (much better) Dante's review of the M8. The key point he makes about the camera being good for making pictures of life remains absolutely spot on.
You should be aware that I do not think it's perfect. I get really irritated by the prriodic moire, the shutter cocking noise and the fact that it feels 'slow' (unlike a 1Ds3 or Zeiss Ikon). However, it is the only camera at this time that does what it does. I got a discount on mine from new - they are available.
Hope that helps. Let me know if you want to discuss further.
Mike
umcelinho
Marcelo
I just hope the M10 has a better lcd screen, the one in the M9 is awful
I was about to get an M9 early this year but after 3 years an M10 might come out later on, so I've decided to wait and see what happens. The M9 is more than enough what I need, but if an M10 has a better high iso capability and allow me to shoot with an ultra wide lens such as the 15mm with no need for passing every file through cornerfix, then it'll be really nice. If the M10 doesn't sound like a big improvement I'll just get a less expensive M9, whose price should drop when the M10 comes out.
I'm fine using film (but its getting worse where I live, bad scans from the lab, got myself a Plustek 7600i to get better quality scans even though I had promised myself I'd never scan color film home again...) and my R-D1, so it also makes me wonder if it's worth spending the $$$ on an M9/M10
I was about to get an M9 early this year but after 3 years an M10 might come out later on, so I've decided to wait and see what happens. The M9 is more than enough what I need, but if an M10 has a better high iso capability and allow me to shoot with an ultra wide lens such as the 15mm with no need for passing every file through cornerfix, then it'll be really nice. If the M10 doesn't sound like a big improvement I'll just get a less expensive M9, whose price should drop when the M10 comes out.
I'm fine using film (but its getting worse where I live, bad scans from the lab, got myself a Plustek 7600i to get better quality scans even though I had promised myself I'd never scan color film home again...) and my R-D1, so it also makes me wonder if it's worth spending the $$$ on an M9/M10
malthusiantrap
Established
If you are aiming for the M9 and only the M9 then I think it might be worth it to wait until the M10 comes out as M9 prices should go down a bit. There might also be a few second hand M9s in the market by the time that happens but given Leica's production speed it should take quite a long time for that to happen. I usually buy older digital bodies when the next generation comes out.
However, I found out that when I finally get what I want I forget the cost and just dwell on the joy of ownership. I remember when I dropped a grand on my first Leica - a mint Leica M2 with lens last march. It cost a lot for me (relative to my income - I'm a poor student) but using it every weekend for the next months gave me an intrinsic ROI. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if it will make you happy then go for it.
However, I found out that when I finally get what I want I forget the cost and just dwell on the joy of ownership. I remember when I dropped a grand on my first Leica - a mint Leica M2 with lens last march. It cost a lot for me (relative to my income - I'm a poor student) but using it every weekend for the next months gave me an intrinsic ROI. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if it will make you happy then go for it.
gavinlg
Veteran
Hmmm.. All this talk of an m10.. Is one expected soon? I haven't heard or seen anything about it, nor would I expect leica to bring one out soon. If they fall prey to short product cycles like the japanese manufacturers their current products like the m9 are going to lose all their resale.
Unless anyone has any solid rumor info, I'd highly doubt an m10 is on the horizon for at least a couple more years..
Unless anyone has any solid rumor info, I'd highly doubt an m10 is on the horizon for at least a couple more years..
back alley
IMAGES
i am so thankful that crop factors don't bother me.
i love my rd1 and the lenses that i have decided on. and i really like my d90!
the fuji pro is very tempting...i love autofocus and it's faster than manual focus, for me, in most situations.
my d90 has spot metering and small area focus, 2 of my favourite things along with aperture priority. it's not a very big dslr and the small and cheap nikkor prime lenses keep it light...it all fits nicely into the tt retro bag.
somewhere along the way, i have decided that full frame and it's higher costs are for folks that make money with their gear and that cropped sensors are for the rest of us.
even if i were to consider myself an artist...i would still be more than happy with a cropped sensor.
so many self imposed rules we put onto ourselves...we do.
i love my rd1 and the lenses that i have decided on. and i really like my d90!
the fuji pro is very tempting...i love autofocus and it's faster than manual focus, for me, in most situations.
my d90 has spot metering and small area focus, 2 of my favourite things along with aperture priority. it's not a very big dslr and the small and cheap nikkor prime lenses keep it light...it all fits nicely into the tt retro bag.
somewhere along the way, i have decided that full frame and it's higher costs are for folks that make money with their gear and that cropped sensors are for the rest of us.
even if i were to consider myself an artist...i would still be more than happy with a cropped sensor.
so many self imposed rules we put onto ourselves...we do.
Gid
Well-known
You make it sound so simple Gid!
People need to remember that I spent two and a half years with an M8 and really liked the camera aside from the crop factor and the IR problem. I'm quite comfortable with the idea of a digital M ... just not the M8. And looking back that M8 cost me $6500 ... so I'm also used to being fleeced by Leica! LOL
I've been around long enough to remember your M8 experiences very well, especially when you were struggling with the low light gallery work. :bang: However, you've got low light stuff covered now, so just pick up the M9, have some fun and when you feel like getting back to film, sell it and move on. Any difference in price will just be rental fees. Good luck with your deliberations.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Sorry Will ... I didn't meant to come across as arrogant. Just expressing what I feel are my particular needs.
What others require in a camera is fine by me but it may not suit what I want ... and small sensors don't, purely for my selfish described reasons.
JWW
Established
I really enjoy using my M9, although I enjoy a MP for film use. I like the M9 image qualities, not just resolution but how you can bring the details out of the darker areas of the image. One way I use to rationalize the cost or depreciation of the M9 compared to a film body is that the M9 cost already includes the equivalent of many, many rolls of film. That could add up to thousands of dollars not having to buy film, developing, and scanning in the years ahead.
sojournerphoto
Veteran
Given my earlier comment on colour, I thought I'd share this at iso800 with the C-Sonnar. I slightly missed focus on her left eye... dof at f1.5 to 2 and that close is less than the gap from nose to eye
Mike
Mike