Conscience? Indecision? Moral Dilemma? Or What?

Regardless of what you think, it's not the same thing. I've had the $50 camera with the $500 lens too. It's only the same thing if you can't see the differences,and that's a matter of your eye, not the equipment.

G

I think it's closer to the truth to say it's a personal choice. For some people it's the same, and for some it's not.

It's not a matter of not seeing the differences, it's whether those differences are important to you. I see people lusting after Leica MPs, I've had one and it was a fairly 'pfft' experience for me. However, for others it'll be the camera they've wanted their whole lives and they'll love it.

Leicas are beautiful cameras, nobody will question that, but that's just one factor, and it's more important to some than others.
 
I think it's closer to the truth to say it's a personal choice. For some people it's the same, and for some it's not.

It's not a matter of not seeing the differences, it's whether those differences are important to you. ...

I do agree with that refinement.

And yes: some of the equipment I've owned that I had fantasized about a long while were 'pfft' once I had them too. Even a couple of the Leicas I had once upon a time ... I was not so enamored of the double-stroke M3 or the M2, for instance. The fabled Linhof 220 was another 'pfft' once I had one. I sold equipment like that quickly.

It's the tendency for some to apply their personal judgements as general fact and disparage everyone else's judgement that I find irritating, not what camera they prefer or money they won't spend.

G
 
I do agree with that refinement.

And yes: some of the equipment I've owned that I had fantasized about a long while were 'pfft' once I had them too. Even a couple of the Leicas I had once upon a time ... I was not so enamored of the double-stroke M3 or the M2, for instance. The fabled Linhof 220 was another 'pfft' once I had one. I sold equipment like that quickly.

It's the tendency for some to apply their personal judgements as general fact and disparage everyone else's judgement that I find irritating, not what camera they prefer or money they won't spend.

G

The Linhof 220 is an interesting camera, but not sure if I could get past how it looks. The DS M3 on the other hand is probably my favourite Leica I've ever owned!
 
It IS a matter of personal choice. For me, it is not a matter of brand or need, etc.. As I stated in my post, I "want" the gear. I guess is how much do I want it? With that kind of cash in hand, do I want it enough to sacrifice the cost, not only in $$$ but also in terms of opportunity cost, e.g., travel.

I mention travel because that is how I would likely spend the $7K. My wife and I travel out of the lower 48 at least once or twice a year in addition to going on road trips in the western US. On those trips, I typically shoot both film (ZI) and digital (NEX).

It is still a dilemma, but your posts have given me something to think about.
 
It IS a matter of personal choice. For me, it is not a matter of brand or need, etc.. As I stated in my post, I "want" the gear. I guess is how much do I want it? With that kind of cash in hand, do I want it enough to sacrifice the cost, not only in $$$ but also in terms of opportunity cost, e.g., travel.

I mention travel because that is how I would likely spend the $7K. My wife and I travel out of the lower 48 at least once or twice a year in addition to going on road trips in the western US. On those trips, I typically shoot both film (ZI) and digital (NEX).

It is still a dilemma, but your posts have given me something to think about.

You could try to rent a M240 for a bit, that will either extinguish the GAS, or confirm that you do really want one.
 
Keith

I don't mean to sound patronising but you are probably a youngish guy with decades of photographic enjoyment in front of you. None of the kit you sell will be with you longer than, say, another five years at the most before being terribly outdated. Neither will a M240 but over the next 5 years with a M240 you will create lots of memorable images and then be ready to move on.

The world of digital is just not for ever, so I wouldn't hesitate to swap out of one digital system for another. On top of that, my experience with Leica was that (a) my lenses never depreciated, they all went up in value(!) and I sold my M8 body after 4.5 years for a cost of approx GBP 200 per year use. Which when you think about it was an absolute bargain.

LouisB
 
***For all you panicky types out there, please note: I am speaking only for myself.***

$7,000 is a lot of money for a single item. I somehow got past this for a while when I bought my M9, but then little by little, the cost of this thing hanging off my shoulder really started to eat at me. I traded it on an X Pro 1 kit + cash and couldn't be happier with my decision. They are not the same thing, and I don't pretend they are, I just know I feel a lot better about my Fuji kit than I did my M9.

Good luck coming to whatever terms you arrive at.
 
Hi,

I don't mind people paying thousands for cameras because when they get tired of them and flog them on ebay I can buy them for hundreds or even less...

Regards, David
 
...

Others will buy those gears because they can justify it. How they justify it, it's their business, but we have to respect their choices as fellow individuals.

One thing we all can celebrate is even in this increasingly messed up world, at least we still can make the choice.

+1, it comes down to exactly that, nothing to add.
 
***For all you panicky types out there, please note: I am speaking only for myself.***

$7,000 is a lot of money for a single item. I somehow got past this for a while when I bought my M9, but then little by little, the cost of this thing hanging off my shoulder really started to eat at me. I traded it on an X Pro 1 kit + cash and couldn't be happier with my decision. They are not the same thing, and I don't pretend they are, I just know I feel a lot better about my Fuji kit than I did my M9.

Good luck coming to whatever terms you arrive at.

The cost of my MP caused me discomfort too, this was worsened by the fact that although a Black Paint MP was my lust-camera for some time, I simply preferred the M3 I had before it, I sold the MP, and got another M3.
 
It's 7000$ dollars guys - and in my mind it's chasing phantom allure of some *thing* that's supposed to be the end-all-be-all-yadda-yadda and Leica is laughing all the way to the bank. They depend on this mystique factor and people who buy into it play it up (almost because they have to).

I wouldn't be paying 7k$ for a Noctilux either when I could produce the same images from a 500$ lens (Rokkor 58/1.2MC) on a 50$ camera - and, if I wanted to, say they were taken with a Noctilux and people would believe it. I'm not paying 14 times for something that's 2% different just because everyone tells me I should be doing it.

Do we lack the critical thinking to examine this for what it is or are our wallets controlled by mystique and marketing? Do not let emotion and "potentiality" control your money. This is what they want. Unless you're entirely limited by the cameras you have now, it's a zero-sum game (and usually a loss) to sell everything and buy something else.

@clayne,

I would like to gently point out that the above is your simply your opinion, nothing more. As such, it is no more valid than my opinion or kxl's or anyone else who posts their thoughts on this forum.

It seems that based on your commentary, we could safely arrive at the conclusion that you judge everything by the money it represents and that you value money above all else in terms of the things or experiences money could be spent on in order to enrich our lives, make them more enjoyable or elevate the quality of our lives.

If that is the case, you are entitled to your worldview. However, you are not entitled to judge or question the intelligence, priorities or critical thinking ability of any one else here based on your worldview - and after reading your comments, it pretty much sounds as if you have done exactly that.

The human body need six things to survive; those things are -
1: Air to breathe
2: Water to drink
3: Food/nourishment
4: Medical care
5: Shelter/a place to live in
6: Clothing to keep us warm and shield us from the elements

Beyond those six necessities, anything and everything else is a luxury - but no one wants to live a life where they have only those six things.
Living such a life would amount to little more than existing.

No one who owns a Harley-Davidson, a sailboat, a swimming pool, a 52" HDTV, a stereo system, a Rolex watch, a classic car, a dog, a cat, a camera, a lens, etc. actually needs those things in order to survive.

These things cost money that does not absolutely have to be spent in the pursuit of survival. Does that mean that anyone who buys any of those things is foolish, incapable of critical thought or just plain stupid?

No.

These things enrich the lives of those who own them. Does the desire to simply enjoy life mean that a person worships at the altar of the latest trinket? Does it mean that the person engages in compulsive shopping, addictive consumerism, rampant materialism and a never ending gobbling up of things?

I would have to say no, provided that the provisions of my original post in this thread (#20) are satisfied:
Yes, $7000 for an M240 is pretty damn salty, just like $6500 for a lens is pretty damn salty. These facts beg the question: SO FREAKING WHAT??

If you can afford the M240 without selling a kidney, running a meth lab, making your wife turn tricks, stealing several elderly people's social security checks or robbing a bank, then I say JUST DO IT.

The pain of paying soon fades (which coincides with FedEx delivering your purchase) and is replaced by the satisfaction of daily use of your dream camera or lens. That satisfaction lasts forever - just as the regret of not obtaining your object of desire will last forever. I know which I'd rather live with.
Just some food for thought...
 
It seems that based on your commentary, we could safely arrive at the conclusion that you judge everything by the money it represents and that you value money above all else in terms of the things or experiences money could be spent on in order to enrich our lives, make them more enjoyable or elevate the quality of our lives.

No, I absolutely do not judge everything by it's cost at all. Not even like that. However, it's not black and white - there is room for grey area and there is room for pragmatism. I'm not laying down 7000$ for any single camera or single lens - simply based on my own internal principles which prevent me from making such an outlandish purchase. If I were going to drop 7k on something, I'd use it on various materials like film and paper.

If that is the case, you are entitled to your worldview. However, you are not entitled to judge or question the intelligence, priorities or critical thinking ability of any one else here based on your worldview - and after reading your comments, it pretty much sounds as if you have done exactly that.

Really, so one is not able to express their opinion here if it somehow makes the other person seem like they're sure spending a lot of money on a single thing. What's the point of this thread then? If I came on here hypothetically saying I wanted to put 50k into the new Leica M480, and pointing out that I'm concerned about the cost I'm not going to expect everyone here is going to keep their mouth closed about it.

If we're not prepared to question ourselves, our motives, and our expensive-toy-driven directions, what's the point? Just sit and coddle each other with "it's cool man, follow your heart" ? I wasn't aware the collective society or culture were not allowed to question the choices others make. That's not the society I live in.
 
I have an M, sir. I just don't have or intend to ever have a 7000$ M or *any* 7000$ camera for that matter.

Sheesh, we're talking about 7000 dollar cameras here. I can't believe some of the justifications I hear about spending that much money on a single piece of gear. "Oh, well if that's what makes you feel better, than by all means, buy it" type of stuff.

I don't buy the mystique/marketing angle. We need to be collectively critical of this, not continually enabling it.

The M8/M9/M240 are tools. If they're the right tool, then it's money well spent. The M8/M9P are the right tools for me.

It's not a matter of not seeing the differences, it's whether those differences are important to you.

Well said.

It IS a matter of personal choice. For me, it is not a matter of brand or need, etc.. As I stated in my post, I "want" the gear. I guess is how much do I want it? With that kind of cash in hand, do I want it enough to sacrifice the cost, not only in $$$ but also in terms of opportunity cost, e.g., travel.

I mention travel because that is how I would likely spend the $7K. My wife and I travel out of the lower 48 at least once or twice a year in addition to going on road trips in the western US. On those trips, I typically shoot both film (ZI) and digital (NEX).

It is still a dilemma, but your posts have given me something to think about.

So... here's the deal: would you actually sell your other gear to raise the $7k to travel, or will you just leave it tied up in that old gear if you don't buy the M240? If you're going to sell the gear for the $7k and it's either travel or the camera, then it's a dilemma. If you wouldn't sell the gear then using the money some other way (travel) doesn't enter the argument.

Decide which gear you want and buy it. It sounds more to me like there's a dollar figure at which you'd just buy the camera without hesitation, but it's lower than $7k. So... if you're viewing the M240 as a tool... the question becomes not how much you spend, but how much utility will that tool provide you? It then becomes a question of value for the dollar.

***For all you panicky types out there, please note: I am speaking only for myself.***

$7,000 is a lot of money for a single item. I somehow got past this for a while when I bought my M9, but then little by little, the cost of this thing hanging off my shoulder really started to eat at me. I traded it on an X Pro 1 kit + cash and couldn't be happier with my decision. They are not the same thing, and I don't pretend they are, I just know I feel a lot better about my Fuji kit than I did my M9.

Good luck coming to whatever terms you arrive at.

And my X-Pro1 kit was the camera that drove me back to Leica and made me realize that if a manual coincident rangefinder digital camera best suited my working style (and it does,) I needed to pay the price of admission. "To each, his own."

Interesting thoughts...

Is dropping $7K on a single camera insane?

Yes. It's insane. No one needs to spend money on photography at all.

Buy the camera and don't worry about it. The M9P is THE most I've EVER spent on any single piece of gear. In fact, I opened a storefront studio with a darkroom and bought all the gear I needed in 1991 for $5k total!

I sold my entire three-body, eight-lens, three flash Olympus E-series setup and returned to Leica early this year. I have about $12k in an M8, M9P, M4-P, eight M-mount lenses and a Visoflex III. The Oly gear paid for about 2/3rds of it. It's the best thing I've ever done.
 
Does anyone else go through the same dilemma? I'd like to hear your experiences and how you resolved that dilemma.

Yes, I went through this dilemma when I bought the M9 for $7000. I never did get over it. Luckily the X-Pro1 from Fuji came along and ended up being the better tool for me, so I sold the M9. I was just never comfortable walking around with $8000-9000 around my neck in some of the places I photograph.
 
My problem with camera bodies is that they depreciate like crazy - "gear rot". Leica holds out better than most, but even an M240 will be worth less than a grand 5 or 6 years later.

Lenses and film bodies hold their value, provided that I don't drop and break them. The actual cost of shooting a top-of-the-line prime lens is very low, especially when spread out over a decade. With any digital body you are looking at a fee of several hundred dollars per year, if you can stomach that, I don't see why you shouldn't get one.

In fact as an economist I have figured that buying $4000 Leica lenses, in the long run, is much more cost-effective compared to Canon/Nikon. The most expensive Leica lenses appreciate at the highest rates (Noctilux, Summilux), and there is virtually no risk of Leica changing mounts in the near future 😀
 
Nope. If I want a camera, lens, light meter, or anything else for photography, and I can afford it, I buy it without regret. No dilemmas. I sold my entire Hasselblad kit a few months ago because a Mamiya 6 would be better for the work I do. Used the Hasselblad money to buy a complete Mamiya 6 kit...body and all 3 lenses. There was no worrying and certainly no moral concerns. I wanted it, didn't want the Hasselblad anymore, so I got it and I'm glad I did.

To me this is the only 'Healthy' approach to it. Unlike Chris, some of us (myself included) often adorn ourselves with this stuff - much like jewelry- and do not push its use as much as one probably should. Chris does one better by actually using the stuff commercially. Those that don't (use it enough or commercially) sometimes feel a bit of guilt, I suspect. And that definitely is not useful,desirable, or even healthy. I am working on just buying stuff I like, want, and can afford. Life is too short to struggle with all the rest of it !
 
...
However, I'm hesitant to shell out $6950 out ...
Here's where I get stuck. Even with that kind of money in hand from the sale of my DSLR gear, I find it difficult to spend all of it on a one-time purchase of a single piece of camera equipment. It's money that I can use to fund other things, such as travel.

Does anyone else go through the same dilemma? I'd like to hear your experiences and how you resolved that dilemma.

I weigh the other things I'd have to give up, not do, or sell. Say I want a Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster — $495,000 to replace my used Miata I bought for $6,000. I won't do it, it's not worth cashing in my 401k, selling the house, just for a car. If the item is ungodly expensive compared to other, similar items, I pass.

Typically I NEVER buy cameras, electronics, or other luxury goods when they first come out. So I resolve that dilemma by realizing new items depreciate, and if I really want one, I'll still want it in 2-3 years when they are half price.

So there, resolved. I wouldn't do it.
 
I see nothing wrong with it, if you sell DSLR gear, which isn't in use and buy something you like with money you'll get from equipment sale you don't use.
Sounds very reasonable to me.
 
one of my ex's could not understand spending 3k on a parrot that i wanted...she kept saying,'but it could die!

I am really sorry, I usually don't do this kind of posts but in this case I agree with her, not because he can die, they usually live longer than us, but because living in a tropical country I have seen both how parrot live in the wild and how they are captured and traded. I would recommend you go to the rainy forest and watch them, then if you still want them in a cage you go ahead but you try to remember them in the wild when you pay the bill.

Having said this, and coming back to cameras, I think that there are two ways to look at camera gear equipment. If it is used for work or traded for other gear which is used for work then the usual computations about how really the new equipment add value to your pictures vs how much time it takes to recover the money vs how much will you need the sold equipment vs how often will you need what you plan to buy (renting for me is always something to consider if we are speaking of exotic stuff you might be using only once or twice, such a 10,000W of light or a shift-tilt ultrawide angle lens or a MF digital back). If it is for pleasure, then if you have the money why not? The good thing about Leicas is that they don't loose value as much as other cameras and that once you have them in your bag you no longer have excuses if you don't produce great images (assuming you take pictures suited to a Leica, of course).

GLF
 
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