Honestly is hard, especially if you see what I got in the mail!

FallisPhoto said:
KEH made a mistake and one of their customers got a nicer lens than he had paid for. Everyone has lauded the honesty of KEH and told the customer he did the right thing. I agree that he did. However, I question the honesty of KEH. Let's turn this around and look at it from the other side. My question is this: If the people at KEH had made another mistake and thought they had bought a cheaper lens, would they make an effort to find the customer and give him more money, or would they just keep their mouths shut and congratulate themselves on having made a really good deal? Call me a cynic, but I think that the person who sold them the lens would never see another dime from them. Are we so used to being taken advantage of, does this really count as honesty?
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Yes, it does. If I find a wallet in the street and give it back to its owner, I have done the right thing. The person may be a very bad person, the money might be stolen. That's on him - I can't know that, nor is it any obligation of mine to know.
 
Would you post a photo of the wallet on an internet forum, proclaim what a righteous and honest fellow you were, and have your ego bask in the "attaboys" and accolades of your fellow "honest" forum members?

Or would you just quietly send it back and leave it at that?

bmattock said:
Yes, it does. If I find a wallet in the street and give it back to its owner, I have done the right thing. The person may be a very bad person, the money might be stolen. That's on him - I can't know that, nor is it any obligation of mine to know.
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M. Valdemar said:
Would you post a photo of the wallet on an internet forum, proclaim what a righteous and honest fellow you were, and have your ego bask in the "attaboys" and accolades of your fellow "honest" forum members?

Or would you just quietly send it back and leave it at that?
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The latter, I would hope.
 
Or suppose Microsoft made a mistake, and sent you a $2000 rebate check instead of a $20 check?

Or a company you consider "evil" sent you something more expensive by mistake? Let's say a company who rips off little old ladies sent you a $1000 lens by mistake? They never ripped off YOU, but you read that they cheated other people.

Or a bookie with whom you lost a LOT of bets paid you off way too much money by mistake?

Would you send it back? Is your honesty unconditional?
 
bmattock said:
Yes, it does. If I find a wallet in the street and give it back to its owner, I have done the right thing. The person may be a very bad person, the money might be stolen. That's on him - I can't know that, nor is it any obligation of mine to know.
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That's true, but completely irrelevent. Sorry, but you've missed the point entirely. The honesty of the guy who is returning the lens was not questioned at all. The question was (let me rephrase this) if KEH wouldn't look up the guys who sell them the lenses and pay for their mistakes, are they really honest?

I don't believe for an instant that KEH doesn't make money on their deals. I believe they do rate their cameras honestly, and I think they do try to satisfy their customers, but I also believe that there is more to honesty than this, because that is just one end of the transaction. In order to be really considered honest, they would also have to be honest in acquiring their stock.
 
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The "incarceration" business is a HUGE growth industry in the USA. Most states now outsource to mega-corporations.

90% of the people locked up are in for victimless drug offensives or crimes against "morality", not violent crime. It makes a HUGE profit to keep people locked up.

The only bigger business is the fear, religion, and "Homeland Security" business, fueled by trillions of your tax dollars.
 
Yeah, but is the "honesty" of the other party the deciding factor in your own honesty?

Big fish have little fish, upon their backs to bite them.........

FallisPhoto said:
You've missed the point. The question was (let me rephrase this) if KEH wouldn't look the guy up and pay for their mistake, are they really honest?
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When you Ass-U-Me.....

When you Ass-U-Me.....

FallisPhoto said:
I don't believe for an instant that KEH doesn't make money on their deals. I believe they do rate their cameras honestly, and I think they do try to satisfy their customers, but I also believe that there is more to honesty than this, because that is just one end of the transaction. In order to be really considered honest, they would also have to be honest in acquiring their stock.
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They may not have 5hafted the person who sold them the lens, it might be as simple as a miss labeling within the KEH family, no?

B2 (;->
 
M. Valdemar said:
Yeah, but is the "honesty" of the other party the deciding factor in your own honesty?

Big fish have little fish, upon their backs to bite them.........
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If someone cheats me, I don't deal with him again, and I tell other people about it. If I had to deal with him again, I would probably not feel that I was obliged to be honest with him though; he would have set the rules and I would feel that I was levelling the playing field. I very much do believe in personal revenge.

Oh, and BTW, the saying is "Big fleas have little fleas, upon their backs to bite them."
 
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BillBingham2 said:
They may not have 5hafted the person who sold them the lens, it might be as simple as a miss labeling within the KEH family, no?

B2 (;->
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True. They might not have shafted the seller. I'd bet they did though. I've never dealt with KEH, but I've dealt with other companies like them before.
 
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The resolution

The resolution

M. Valdemar said:
Would you post a photo of the wallet on an internet forum, proclaim what a righteous and honest fellow you were, and have your ego bask in the "attaboys" and accolades of your fellow "honest" forum members?

Or would you just quietly send it back and leave it at that?
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First off I want to clear something up: I did not start this thread to hear "Attaboy." When I said "It is hard being honest when. . ." I said it more tongue and cheek. I just posted the picture of the lens because it was surprising, it was a neat story I wanted to share - not to praise myself, but rather with the intent, "Man, look what came in the mail. What a shock." When I saw the thread starting to take a different route I almost deleted it, until I saw a really neat philosophical dicussion brewing about morality - and it was very interesting to see other people's perspectives.

You might question if that was my intent ot not. You might think that maybe I secretly wanted some attention but won't admit to it. Well, I don't give a "rats behind" why you think I did it, I know the truth. God help me if calling KEH because of this error was some "great and noble deed" that I needed a pat on the back for. It wasn't, rather anyone who would not do it needs a kick in the butt.

KEH called me back. I have two choices: 1) I can keep the lens and split the difference with them (it would cost me an extra $179).
2) I can return the lens, get a full refind including shipping costs, and an extra $50 to spend once the lens I was originally looking for comes in stock.

Both of these are very fair offers. I don't know which offer I will take, but most likely it will be #2.
 
Is it C/Y?
I did not know it existed.
I have the 35/2,8.
The 28/2,8 has a good reputation.
I wonder about this one. Whatever the epilogue will be, try it and let us know.
Cheers
Paul
 
It's nice to know KEH rose to the occasion, just as you did. Alan Greenspan, in his autobiography, says that you can have all the regulation you want but good business is ultimately based on trust.

Honest can be hard: I once quit a job with a big computer company and went on vacation for two months. When I got back I saw that they had continued to pay my salary! I really did not like the company and hemmed and hawed about what to do for a while but finally called their HR department. The woman I talked to was horrified. She said she would investigate and call me back. An hour later she called and said "The payments are going to stop. You can keep what we already sent you. Just don't tell anybody, okay?"

I was happy to agree to that deal.
 
I think either option is not bad. At the end of the day it's been very interesting to see how people have commented throughout. It's also a positive story about KEH. Often we only hear about the negative stories. The good seem to die young.

Thanks

B2 (;->
 
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