Clint Troy
Well-known
My real name could be Kauffman. Or Kaufmann. Or even Khaufman. Or Clint Troy. What's the point? But you guessing and your sarcasm really make you lose credibility. At least to me.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Mistakes happen. Why should any company be above the occasional mistake? If this had happened on a small batch of M7 bodies nobody would notice. A digital body and suddenly they are incapable?
Not rocket surgery no, a simple case of something going wrong due to human error. Get over it. They're taking a proactive approach to dealing with something that likely exists on an extremely minor number of cameras, perhaps someone had a bad few days or was filling in for a colleague and did an unfamiliar task incorrectly a few times. Cameras made by human beings not robots are susceptible to human error. After all the furor over the M8 sensor and something on the M9 (I can;t remember what was "wrong" there) they are hearing the internet trolls and doing something to cover their ass. Nikon might take heed.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Oh I think we know your real name.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
A friend just spent the better part of today dealing with a Toyota recall over an airbag wiring harness. I suppose Toyota ought to quit making cars.
okto
Established
This has nothing to do with being digital, with lens compatibility, with anything new at all.
The strap lugs failed.
Not the brand-new sensor, not the digital board, not the new-ish vertical-travel shutter.
THE STRAP LUGS.
Literally the least-complex, least-precise component on the whole camera, and something Leica [should have] had all sorted out around 1959.
Also, the belief that one has to be blameless in order to observe or judge is simplistic and foolish. This is not a zero-sum equation; the fact that Leica have sixty years of experience means the standard is higher for their interchangeable-lens rangefinder system than any theoretical new competitors'.
aeturnum
Established
Interesting problem to issue a recall over. It seems like they could just announce repairs are covered and let the problems come in. I guess there's a risk of the lugs failing suddenly and the camera falling.
All the comments about $7k cameras aside, I think this is a side effect of Leica's low production volume (not their per-unit price). It's probably not worth it for them to randomly test cameras coming off the assembly line - while cannon can torture test 1/100th of their cameras easily.
There's clearly a breaking point, where you have to greatly increase the price premium on each camera to deal with small production runs. This has already happened in the MF camera market. Leica's original design focused on simplicity, but their new designs are modern mirrorless cameras (many components, many manufacturers, etc). Canon has the money to hire an entire team of LCD experts, because they use many LCDs. How many people can Leica afford?
For people who say "$7,000 is already a high premium," should consider the alternatives. A 5D mk3 costs $3.5k, which places the price premium around 100% right now. That's not much. A Rollei Hy6, with no sensor, costs $7,900. That's a price premium.
All the comments about $7k cameras aside, I think this is a side effect of Leica's low production volume (not their per-unit price). It's probably not worth it for them to randomly test cameras coming off the assembly line - while cannon can torture test 1/100th of their cameras easily.
There's clearly a breaking point, where you have to greatly increase the price premium on each camera to deal with small production runs. This has already happened in the MF camera market. Leica's original design focused on simplicity, but their new designs are modern mirrorless cameras (many components, many manufacturers, etc). Canon has the money to hire an entire team of LCD experts, because they use many LCDs. How many people can Leica afford?
For people who say "$7,000 is already a high premium," should consider the alternatives. A 5D mk3 costs $3.5k, which places the price premium around 100% right now. That's not much. A Rollei Hy6, with no sensor, costs $7,900. That's a price premium.
okto
Established
Uh? Paying for two cameras and getting one isn't a steep premium? Not to mention that, compatible lens system aside, the 5D Mk III does about 300% of what the M 240 does, and does most of it better.
I'm not saying that makes the 5D a better photographic tool, but the modern Leica markup, compared to other cameras which do more and are as durable, is extreme.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Well, if as famous, trusted, and time-honored a company as Boeing can make a new airplane that cost $243.6 million and has a battery that catches fire, I guess Leica can make an $8,000 camera with strap lugs that fall off.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
heh.. don't be making those types of comparisons.. you'll be tarred and feathered and run out of town for being a Leica apologist
Cheers,
Dave
Godfrey
somewhat colored
How do you know that fitting a strap lug designed to support and hold the camera through all the ridiculous things that photographers do with straps and lugs, other accessories, is "... the least-complex, least precise component on the whole camera..."? The new M body shell is new, just like its functional insides; it wasn't designed in 1959 and has been in production for just a couple of months. That means a new die, a new procedure to install the lugs, to work out and proof, etc etc. It might seem simple, but I doubt it is as simple as you seem to think.
You never make mistakes on anything you do, I'm sure.
Leica discovered they had a problem, fixed the problem, and then told the world about it so that people who might be affected can be taken care of. Bravo to them. I hope you treat your mistakes with the same objective honesty.
G
Jeff S
Well-known
Your M8 bias is showing again.
Difference between:
Film M vs M8/M8.2 You say "quite"; I'd say massive.
Difference between M9 and M240; you say "big" and I agree.
Difference between M8/M8.2 and M9; you say "massive." Really? I'd say easily the least difference of all comparisons here, with primarily the same but bigger sensor, with a thin filter.
Never mind my thoughts; at least knowledgeable folks like Puts agree that the difference is not big, as he recently writes here. In fact he says "The M9 and M9P and M8/M8.2 share the same basic sensor and when used at identical distances the pixel pitch and image magnification are identical. It is no surprise that both cameras perform in the same league.... If you want to be very critical you might say that the M8.2 has the upper hand....The widespread opinion that the M8 is inferior to the M9 is not correct."
Jeff
jtullar
Established
Seems to me this is a common issue on Leica cameras. M2,M3,M4,M6,M7,M8,M9,X1 and now the new m240 have had cases of strap lugs unscrewing or even breaking off. It may be a low number of users but its 60 years of cameras with the same problem lol.
back alley
IMAGES
did I say leica should quit making cameras?
silverbullet
Well-known
Regarding the different bodies the difference between them is like zero in terms of lug position and counter material. No use of Aramid fibres, no reinforced ABS it's plain and easy metal like the first Ms. It doesn't matter wether the body has one, two or more different shell peaces. The lugs must be fitted just in one position of a given part. Really no rocket science.....
I don't hope that Leica has 'forgotten' the fact that from now on, this M body will be stressed by mounting R lenses.....
Some zooms or third party lenses mounted by adaptor will stress the two lugs much more compare to a Nocti......
Let's wait.....
I don't hope that Leica has 'forgotten' the fact that from now on, this M body will be stressed by mounting R lenses.....
Some zooms or third party lenses mounted by adaptor will stress the two lugs much more compare to a Nocti......
Let's wait.....
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Can't ask for much more than this ... there doesn't seem a lot to argue about here!
maitani
Well-known
anyway, kind of good to see it's a staplugs problem instead of a serious sensor problem or so, that would have been a real dealbreaker. imo a good reaction and straightforward communication by leica
Sparrow
Veteran
Oh ... I don't know there must be something ...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
So I wonder ... if your Leica and Noct plunges eathward and lands on your Nikon D4, will they replace that as well?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Jeff,
Sorry, didn't realize I had an 'M8 bias' (though I did know I had an M8).
'Quite' was intended as a deliberate understatement.
"Massive" was intended to reflect the complete redesign of the interior to accommodate the very much bigger battery. There are very, very few common components.
Cheers,
R.
Sparrow
Veteran
So I wonder ... if your Leica and Noct plunges eathward and lands on your Nikon D4, will they replace that as well?
... I wouldn't have thought they would need to, it would be like hitting a hockey puck with a carriage clock