Neopan 1600: Status?

[Mister E]

Hearing of the discontinuation of Neopan 400, and now possibly Neopan 1600, makes me wonder if Fuji is not employing a cynical strategy of discontinuing films so as to drum up/ gauge support, before possibly re-introducing them.

When mentioning the Neopan 400 situation to my local camera and film supplies shop, they mentioned that usually a discontinuation means there's still approximately 2 years supply of that film still out there, and the possibility of Fuji re-introducing the film is a real possibility.

It's funny, of all the current film producers I would have said Ilford firstly, and Fuji secondly were the committed ones of the big three (Ilford, Fuji, Kodak). Discontinuing any of their emulsions would seem to fly in the face of their film camera production, and I wonder if this is not an effort by Fuji to restructure their film production facilities.

Fuji doesn't have many black and white emulsions, and Acros 100, Neopan 400 and Neopan 1600 are some very nice films.

Neopan 400 was discontinued only in 120. Neopan 400 Pushed to 1600 isn't that much different that Neopan 1600 @ 1600.

I think Fuji's last film introduction was in something like 2007 with RXP/Provia 400X. Which has been a revolutionary film. It's great, but that's it. I don't think they'll be introducing/re-introducing anything else. It looks like they're slimming down as much as possible.

 

[igi]

So now that Neopan 1600 is gone (for real?), what alternatives are left? There are 3200 speed films but are there any more 1600 speed films left?

 

[sevo]

So now that Neopan 1600 is gone (for real?), what alternatives are left? There are 3200 speed films but are there any more 1600 speed films left?

Well, ever since Kodak gave Tmax 3200 a name which sounds like its sensitivity but isn't, they all have been misnaming their fast films, Fuji just a bit less rudely than Kodak and Ilford. Neopan 1600 is about 1000, real world developed to ISO standard in D76 type developer - and the same goes for Delta 3200. Tmax 3200 is about 1600 under these conditions.

 

[valdas]

I try to be positive. No Neopan 1600 probably means more business for Ilford (HP5), so at least those truly dedicated companies can improve their position (and be rewarded for their dedication).

 

[semilog]

Well, ever since Kodak gave Tmax 3200 a name which sounds like its sensitivity but isn't, they all have been misnaming their fast films, Fuji just a bit less rudely than Kodak and Ilford. Neopan 1600 is about 1000, real world developed to ISO standard in D76 type developer - and the same goes for Delta 3200. Tmax 3200 is about 1600 under these conditions.

That's right.

Note that the box speed on 1600PR is marked as EI 1600, not ISO 1600. Same for Delta 3200 and TMZ: EI 3200, not ISO.

 

[sepiareverb]

I try to be positive. No Neopan 1600 probably means more business for Ilford (HP5), so at least those truly dedicated companies can improve their position (and be rewarded for their dedication).

My thoughts exactly. I guess I'll be giving Delta 3200 a real thorough testing as my stash of Neopan gets low.

 

[Tim Gray]

I've never seen anything that led me to believe that Neopan 1600 is anywhere near ISO 1600. I'd agree with Mister E - "Neopan 400 Pushed to 1600 isn't that much different that Neopan 1600 @ 1600."

Delta 3200 and T-Max 3200 are reported to be ISO 1000 and ISO 800-1000 respectively by the manufacturer in their data sheets. Fuji makes no comment on this regard for Neopan 1600, but looking at the H&D curves (and the results) leads me to believe that it falls between ISO 400 and 800.

When I tested T-Max 3200, I got a full stop (plus a bit) of sensitivity over T-Max 400 and Tri-X 400. Which is in line with what Kodak says. I've not done the same test with Delta 3200.

With that being said, there's obviously a lot more than just shadow speed when choosing a film. There isn't much more than that though for an ISO rating.

 

[semilog]

I try to be positive. No Neopan 1600 probably means more business for Ilford (HP5), so at least those truly dedicated companies can improve their position (and be rewarded for their dedication).

Yes. I will continue to bulk load 2TMY because I like it a lot, but I see a lot more Delta 100 and HP5+ in my future. First I have to shoot through my remaining 80 rolls of Neopan ACROS, 400, and 1600, though. 😎

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You could sell some of the N1600 and install small photo-lamps in your camera to pre-sensitize 400 speed film and shoot it at 1600. No need to push-process. I've got the article on it somewhere at home, done in the 1970s.

 

[semilog]

You could sell some of the N1600 and install small photo-lamps in your camera to pre-sensitize 400 speed film and shoot it at 1600. No need to push-process. I've got the article on it somewhere at home, done in the 1970s.

We used to do that for astro-photograpy in the bad old days. Ugh.

 

[sevo]

You could sell some of the N1600 and install small photo-lamps in your camera to pre-sensitize 400 speed film and shoot it at 1600. No need to push-process. I've got the article on it somewhere at home, done in the 1970s.

It also has the advantage that it allows to place the darkest grey value exactly at the bottom edge of the curve, so that no shadows detail is lost. It is pretty much standard in the motion picture industry - most serious Arri or Pana cameras you can rent these days come with a pre-flash kit.

 

[ferider]

Neopan 400 is back in stock at B+H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=neopan+400&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

 

[semilog]

Neopan 400 is back in stock at B+H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=neopan+400&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

That's the good news. The bad news is that I talked to a sales rep at Freestyle yesterday, and she told me it is unlikely that, after the current short-dated batch of Legacy Pro 100 (Exp. 01/2011) is gone, there probably won't be any more.

No more cheap ACROS 🙁.

Guess it's time to learn how to deal with Delta 100.

 

[igi]

I try to be positive. No Neopan 1600 probably means more business for Ilford (HP5), so at least those truly dedicated companies can improve their position (and be rewarded for their dedication).

I hope Ilford does not become the Leica of films though!😱

 

[clayne]

That's the good news. The bad news is that I talked to a sales rep at Freestyle yesterday, and she told me it is unlikely that, after the current short-dated batch of Legacy Pro 100 (Exp. 01/2011) is gone, there probably won't be any more.

No more cheap ACROS 🙁.

Guess it's time to learn how to deal with Delta 100.

Did you never buy Acros before legacypro was available? If you put your money into a single film company it will only decrease competition and help ensure we only have a single film company.

 

[sepiareverb]

I think competition in the film business is long over with. The Kodak and Fuji product lines shrinking would seem to bear that out. I'm happy to stick with companies that have stated they are committed to film- and whose actions show that they are. Ilford comes to mind...

 

[semilog]

Did you never buy Acros before legacypro was available? If you put your money into a single film company it will only decrease competition and help ensure we only have a single film company.

A few times. I actually only tried ACROS for the first time in the last year, and fell head-over-heels in love with it.

However: 1600PR and ACROS when purchased by the roll are very expensive compared to the alternatives. I've shot a fair amount of Provia over the years. I've never seen either 1600PR or ACROS on 100 foot bulk-load spools. Legacy Pro provided an inexpensive way to shoot ACROS and Neopan 400, and that's why I've been using a lot of it.

The Kodak and Ilford films that I like can all be readily obtained in 100 foot spools, so they are not terribly expensive either.

I shoot a lot of 2TMY but it's almost always bulk-load, which more than cuts my price in half. I suspect that over the longer term I'll shoot almost exclusively 2TMY and bulk-loaded Delta 100.

I like HP5+ a lot, too. I've bulk loaded thousands of feet of HP5 (I used to run a university darkroom) over the years. I could be fairly happy with just bulk-loaded HP5+ and home-made XTOL, if necessary.

 

[semilog]

I think competition in the film business is long over with. The Kodak and Fuji product lines shrinking would seem to bear that out. I'm happy to stick with companies that have stated they are committed to film- and whose actions show that they are. Ilford comes to mind...

Given the shrinking market, I'd say that Kodak is doing a valiant job of supporting their product lines. 2TMY is an amazingly great film.

The way that Fuji is phasing out 1600PR seems to be nothing short of a debacle, though.

 

[Mister E]

My thoughts exactly. I guess I'll be giving Delta 3200 a real thorough testing as my stash of Neopan gets low.

The two films couldn't be any more different.

 

[semilog]

The two films couldn't be any more different.

I'll probably run out of both 1600PR and Neopan/LP 400 by next summer.

After that, I'll just push 2TMY or HP5+.

I have no idea how I'll replace ACROS when I run out of LP100. Probably with Delta.