sparrow6224
Well-known
Your color street portraits really are quite impressive.
Selling M6TTL for X100s
- Thread starter pipeclayed
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rbelyell
Well-known
i have had an x100 for 18months, i love it, and i still shoot film.
some excellent comments above, to distill the best:
1) DOF of x100 is very different from what youre used to. in some cases that will be a plus, but it seems it might be more of a negative for your particular style.
2) it is very easy to zone focus the x100. period. it has an easy to view scale in the vf. not an issue at all, dont even be concerned about it.
3) you have a 28mm you dont use, a camera you love, but a real cost issue. why not sell the 28, buy a cheap used x100, keep the m6, and enjoy the versatility. never sell what you love! just find another way! my experience is that the x will complement your m6, for use in low light, for use when extreme DOF is not necessary, for use in 'knock aorund' situations where you want to take a lot of shots but not pay to see the results. then use the m6 for other situations.
tony
some excellent comments above, to distill the best:
1) DOF of x100 is very different from what youre used to. in some cases that will be a plus, but it seems it might be more of a negative for your particular style.
2) it is very easy to zone focus the x100. period. it has an easy to view scale in the vf. not an issue at all, dont even be concerned about it.
3) you have a 28mm you dont use, a camera you love, but a real cost issue. why not sell the 28, buy a cheap used x100, keep the m6, and enjoy the versatility. never sell what you love! just find another way! my experience is that the x will complement your m6, for use in low light, for use when extreme DOF is not necessary, for use in 'knock aorund' situations where you want to take a lot of shots but not pay to see the results. then use the m6 for other situations.
tony
jmcd
Well-known
Your work is so fun to view and your colors are gorgeous. You will make great photos with whatever you use.
boomguy57
Well-known
I'd say sell the 28mm and get a used x100. If you like it you can upgrade later when the price comes down. Ultimately is a hobby so if you enjoy using the m6 then keep doing so.
35photo
Well-known
Your not going to come close replicating what your doing with the M6 with a X100, in my opinion you have to get a full frame digital camera if you want the DOP, tone, and dynamic range of your film M6...X100 to me is just a compromise...Options: Keep M6 for sure sell 28 and save and get an used M9 or a Sony RX1 if you want to stay with a small camera...If you could do DSLR you have lots of Full Frame chooses. I have and M6, M4, and Nikon D800E with a Zeiss 35 f2 not the smallest camera but the image quality makes up for it...I use them all to varying degrees different situations with different lenses....
Really nice work my the way...don't like the navigation on your site though wish is was easier to go though and navigate...
One thing, just keep shooting! Don't worry about the cost worry about getting the image no matter what...
Really nice work my the way...don't like the navigation on your site though wish is was easier to go though and navigate...
One thing, just keep shooting! Don't worry about the cost worry about getting the image no matter what...
pipeclayed
Member
Thank you all very much for the advice and input - it's really appreciated. It looks like I'm going to have to hold onto the M6, for now at least.
And thanks to everyone for the compliments about my work, that's made my day. 🙂
@35photo - you're not the first to mention the navigation... might re-think that - thanks!
And thanks to everyone for the compliments about my work, that's made my day. 🙂
@35photo - you're not the first to mention the navigation... might re-think that - thanks!
willie_901
Veteran
While my comparison is to the Zeiss Ikon M with the Biogon 35, I find my in focus success rate with the X100 to be similar to the ZM. This could just mean I was inept at focusing the ZM.
The DOF differences are real. The XP1 or XE1 with the future 23/1.4 will have DOF control similar to your Biogon. I think you might consider how often you use the Biogon at f 2.8 or narrower apertures because the X100 DOF will be similar at those apertures. The X100 lens performs well at f 2. But the Fujinon can create flare artifacts around bright point-source lights in high contrast situations (night scenes).
Focusing the X100 is completely different than a rangefinder, which is obvious. What may not be as obvious is many X100 owners have adapted to using the AF manually to focus and recompose as if they were using a rangefinder. In addition the digital zoom feature is useful to check focus and make fine adjustments. This takes less time than you may imagine. Of course zone focusing is practical as well.
I only use raw because it's like working with a negative. This means there you could face a learning curve with software such as Lightroom.
I do not regret selling my ZI M and M lenses. In my personal situation using 35mm film is not practical or desirable. I enjoy using my X100 as much as I enjoyed using the ZI M. Just like the ZM I take the X100 everywhere I go (even though I also have the XP1.) But the operational experience is very different.
The DOF differences are real. The XP1 or XE1 with the future 23/1.4 will have DOF control similar to your Biogon. I think you might consider how often you use the Biogon at f 2.8 or narrower apertures because the X100 DOF will be similar at those apertures. The X100 lens performs well at f 2. But the Fujinon can create flare artifacts around bright point-source lights in high contrast situations (night scenes).
Focusing the X100 is completely different than a rangefinder, which is obvious. What may not be as obvious is many X100 owners have adapted to using the AF manually to focus and recompose as if they were using a rangefinder. In addition the digital zoom feature is useful to check focus and make fine adjustments. This takes less time than you may imagine. Of course zone focusing is practical as well.
I only use raw because it's like working with a negative. This means there you could face a learning curve with software such as Lightroom.
I do not regret selling my ZI M and M lenses. In my personal situation using 35mm film is not practical or desirable. I enjoy using my X100 as much as I enjoyed using the ZI M. Just like the ZM I take the X100 everywhere I go (even though I also have the XP1.) But the operational experience is very different.
bigeye
Well-known
You're a good photographer and you're asking if you should change your tools because you may save some money. Alarm bells are ringing, Willie.
Regardless of the artistic merits that film may have that you well employ, used X100 prices have collapsed to ~$700 (from $1200 new); with the release of the s model ($1300), they'll likely drop a bit more.
It's clear to me. I'd sell off the unloved 28 and try a x100 to find out if you are as good or better with it, rather than dump the Leica, cold turkey. You can always flip it for the same, or close, now depreciated price.
I believe that my father's only temporal regret at the end of his life was selling off his Leica gear, used around arabia and europe for 20 years. (That, and not buying more IBM.)
- Charlie
Regardless of the artistic merits that film may have that you well employ, used X100 prices have collapsed to ~$700 (from $1200 new); with the release of the s model ($1300), they'll likely drop a bit more.
It's clear to me. I'd sell off the unloved 28 and try a x100 to find out if you are as good or better with it, rather than dump the Leica, cold turkey. You can always flip it for the same, or close, now depreciated price.
I believe that my father's only temporal regret at the end of his life was selling off his Leica gear, used around arabia and europe for 20 years. (That, and not buying more IBM.)
- Charlie
benlees
Well-known
Keep the M6 and sell the 28mm. X100 prices are falling rapidly so you may not have to spend much. See if you can borrow an x100- they are a bit quirky compared to an M6- to see if you like it.
Vincent.G
Well-known
When I saw your thread title, I thought you are crazy!
Your M6TTL worked for you for four years already.
My advise is to go buy film and go shoot with that M6TTL for another 6 months or so. Embark on some project or go learn wet printing.
I trust that you can make the best decision for yourself. Good luck!
ktmrider
Well-known
Get an X100
Get an X100
I have had an X100 for 18 months. It is a GREAT camera. Having said I also own an M2, M6 and even an R6.2. The X100 is the one I take when I am feeling lazy. Zone focusing is super easy. If you can live with the fixed lens, then it is a no brainer. Again, sell the 28 but keep the Leica if you can. You can always sell it later. And used X100's can be had for 600-700 dollars. The autofocus has been greatly improved with firmware updates.
Get an X100
I have had an X100 for 18 months. It is a GREAT camera. Having said I also own an M2, M6 and even an R6.2. The X100 is the one I take when I am feeling lazy. Zone focusing is super easy. If you can live with the fixed lens, then it is a no brainer. Again, sell the 28 but keep the Leica if you can. You can always sell it later. And used X100's can be had for 600-700 dollars. The autofocus has been greatly improved with firmware updates.
taemo
eat sleep shoot
I've had my M6 for almost a year now and the X100 for a month now.
they are both great cameras, the X100 is perfect for quick snapshots, always have it with me, saves me money without using film, I liked it so much that I pre-ordered the X100s (will be selling my X100 to a friend) and have the 28mm conversion lens.
However I will be keeping both, I can see myself keeping the M6 til I hit the grave as it's a fantastic camera and it just work. The X100S will be used as company but for me it will never replace a true RF or film camera.
also like what someone mentioned here, your Leica will produce shallower DoF than the X100 23mm f/2 on APS-C
they are both great cameras, the X100 is perfect for quick snapshots, always have it with me, saves me money without using film, I liked it so much that I pre-ordered the X100s (will be selling my X100 to a friend) and have the 28mm conversion lens.
However I will be keeping both, I can see myself keeping the M6 til I hit the grave as it's a fantastic camera and it just work. The X100S will be used as company but for me it will never replace a true RF or film camera.
also like what someone mentioned here, your Leica will produce shallower DoF than the X100 23mm f/2 on APS-C
willie_901
Veteran
The alarm bells did ring and they alerted me that the surface area of 35 mm is too small to be worth the trouble. I never mentioned money in my post.
pipeclayed
Member
Update, in case anyone cares: I ended up getting the X100s (and have not, yet at least, sold my M6). However, I've got to say, I've fallen completely in love with the Fuji. OK, so it doesn't feel quite as solid in my hands, I don't like relying on the batteries and the occasional whirring is weird after the dead-silent Leica... however, the Fuji is one hell of a camera. I get so much more flexibility in terms of making the exposure that I need/want to make in any given situation, it is an absolute low-light demon and the AF is (9 times out of 10) quicker than I could MF the M6 (but if I want to zone focus the Fuji I can do that too). Image quality seems awesome and I have only been shooting JPEGs so far. Having said all of that, I don't know if I will let my Leica go. I still love it. I just dunno if/when I will next use it...
progie
Member
Congratulations, You made the right choice.
KM-25
Well-known
I went from having 4 M film bodies to a single M3 / 50 once I got done with a project and picked up the original X100. I basically only really used a 35 and 50 in RF anyway and felt that the combo of a 35 on the X and 50 on the M3 would be a great combo...
I was wrong...it is a stellar combo!
I miss the M6 once and awhile but the M3 takes care of that fix even better due to it being the best combo with a 50mm lens I have ever used and the meter-less shutter release the best I have ever put my finger on. But as good as the X100 is, the X100S is a *lot* better in nearly every capacity thus far, including being a worthy replacement for my M6.
I shoot a lot of film but only about 5% of my annual consumption is in 35mm. So I have what I feel is by far my favorite travel / street bag, an A&A Oskar's One Day Bag with my M3/50, X100S/35 and Xpan/45 equaling a panoramic 24mm. No other lenses, just each camera with it's nirvana glass on it.
While I would not sell the M6 right off, if the itch needs scratching later and you find your X100S is lonely, consider a clean M3 with a 50. The two play so nice together it is as good as it gets.
Some might ask why no M9 instead of a X100S to pair with the M3/50. Simple answer, Leica has totally lost it in terms of pricing and the X100S does so much that I would choose it over any other digital camera out there for documentary work, it is simply *that* good.
I was wrong...it is a stellar combo!
I miss the M6 once and awhile but the M3 takes care of that fix even better due to it being the best combo with a 50mm lens I have ever used and the meter-less shutter release the best I have ever put my finger on. But as good as the X100 is, the X100S is a *lot* better in nearly every capacity thus far, including being a worthy replacement for my M6.
I shoot a lot of film but only about 5% of my annual consumption is in 35mm. So I have what I feel is by far my favorite travel / street bag, an A&A Oskar's One Day Bag with my M3/50, X100S/35 and Xpan/45 equaling a panoramic 24mm. No other lenses, just each camera with it's nirvana glass on it.
While I would not sell the M6 right off, if the itch needs scratching later and you find your X100S is lonely, consider a clean M3 with a 50. The two play so nice together it is as good as it gets.
Some might ask why no M9 instead of a X100S to pair with the M3/50. Simple answer, Leica has totally lost it in terms of pricing and the X100S does so much that I would choose it over any other digital camera out there for documentary work, it is simply *that* good.
willie_901
Veteran
I appreciate the update.
Archiver
Veteran
Coming from you, this is very high praise of the Fuji, indeed! I shouldn't read stuff like this, it makes me want to get the X100S, when I already have a M9, OM-D, X100, GXR and other wonderful cameras.
jsrockit
Moderator
Good for you man. I feel the same way. I keep my M, but it gets used less and less. But, as many of us know here on RFF, some days are just rangefinder days. 🙂
mpjmp
Member
I'm just now coming by this thread and thought I'd chime in. I have been going through the same dilemma as the OP and have gone back and forth with the idea of selling my cherished film Leica rangefinder in favor of the new Fuji X100S, which is a camera that has brought a lot of the fun back into my photography. It's nice to know I'm not the only one weighing the options of Leica film vs. Fuji digital.
I've been a Leica M film shooter for the past decade, starting with an M6 in 2003 and then moving up to an MP in 2004. 35mm and 50mm lenses are my choices, with the 35mm getting the lion's share of the work. Like KM-25 said, Leica's pricing on their digital Ms is absurd, so those have never really been a realistic consideration for me. Even a used M8 isn't an attractive option considering the 1.5x crop factor, the need to use IR flters and the fear that it will become an expensive paperweight if the sensor eventually fails.
I pre-ordered the X100S and received one from the first batch back in April. It immediately clicked with me, as I suppose it should being designed to resemble a Leica rangefinder. After a month or so of very satisfying results I started thinking about the hassle of dealing with film-- having to order it from B&H, time and money spent processing, and then..... the dreaded scanning! How nice it is to simply pull out the SD card and stick it in the computer! A few actions in Lightroom and I can have convincing black and white images complete with "grain" for that "film look."
After a lot of thought I put all of my Leica gear on eBay. After just a few days the auctions were already up to what I originally paid for the gear new 10 years ago. Woo hoo! I started thinking of all the cool stuff I could do with the money I was going to get.
But then I started thinking about all the great times I'd had with the Leica. It's taken thousands of beautiful photos and has never missed a beat. It's literally been around the world with me. A companion through life. Heck, the Leica was probably one of the first things my kids saw after they were each born. I can think of at least three people who have matted and framed photos of mine on dispaly in their offices or homes that were taken with the Leica on black and white film. Would those photos have been just as special if they were taken with an ordinary digital camera? Maybe not. What digital camera have I owned for ten years that is still cranking out such exquisite images? None! Digital cameras come and go with new and improved models every few years. The Fuji X100S will be the same, no doubt. In 2 or 3 years I will likely have moved on to something else. The X200? I'm sure it will be absolutely killer and the camera to own in 2015. The Leica, on the other hand, will still be going strong long after I've turned back into dust.
So, in a moment of sentimental attachment to an inanimate object, I cancelled the eBay auctions and vowed to keep the Leica forever
But a few weeks later the same thought cycle started again. The result was a relisting of the eBay auctions, followed a few days later by cancellations for the same reasons.
While the logical side of my brain tells me it's time to move on with something like the X100S, the emotional side of me just can't leave film and the Leica. It's an internal battle. Emotion vs. logic. Old vs. new. I sometimes feel like Frodo Baggins from The Lord of the Rings with his "precious" ring. You want to get rid of it and at the same time can't bear to part with it.
For now, I've got the Leica and the X100S in the bag and am shooting both about equally.
When the idea of selling the Leica starts to come back I read Chris Weeks' "Street Photography for the Purist" and the urge seems to go away. That and the "I love my MP" thread over on the Leica forum seem to be doing the trick.
The purpose of this long out-pouring is simply to recommend to the OP: DON'T SELL YOUR LEICA!!!!!
Leica film rangefinders are timeless. When you hold one in your hand you can conquer the world.
-Mike
I've been a Leica M film shooter for the past decade, starting with an M6 in 2003 and then moving up to an MP in 2004. 35mm and 50mm lenses are my choices, with the 35mm getting the lion's share of the work. Like KM-25 said, Leica's pricing on their digital Ms is absurd, so those have never really been a realistic consideration for me. Even a used M8 isn't an attractive option considering the 1.5x crop factor, the need to use IR flters and the fear that it will become an expensive paperweight if the sensor eventually fails.
I pre-ordered the X100S and received one from the first batch back in April. It immediately clicked with me, as I suppose it should being designed to resemble a Leica rangefinder. After a month or so of very satisfying results I started thinking about the hassle of dealing with film-- having to order it from B&H, time and money spent processing, and then..... the dreaded scanning! How nice it is to simply pull out the SD card and stick it in the computer! A few actions in Lightroom and I can have convincing black and white images complete with "grain" for that "film look."
After a lot of thought I put all of my Leica gear on eBay. After just a few days the auctions were already up to what I originally paid for the gear new 10 years ago. Woo hoo! I started thinking of all the cool stuff I could do with the money I was going to get.
But then I started thinking about all the great times I'd had with the Leica. It's taken thousands of beautiful photos and has never missed a beat. It's literally been around the world with me. A companion through life. Heck, the Leica was probably one of the first things my kids saw after they were each born. I can think of at least three people who have matted and framed photos of mine on dispaly in their offices or homes that were taken with the Leica on black and white film. Would those photos have been just as special if they were taken with an ordinary digital camera? Maybe not. What digital camera have I owned for ten years that is still cranking out such exquisite images? None! Digital cameras come and go with new and improved models every few years. The Fuji X100S will be the same, no doubt. In 2 or 3 years I will likely have moved on to something else. The X200? I'm sure it will be absolutely killer and the camera to own in 2015. The Leica, on the other hand, will still be going strong long after I've turned back into dust.
So, in a moment of sentimental attachment to an inanimate object, I cancelled the eBay auctions and vowed to keep the Leica forever
But a few weeks later the same thought cycle started again. The result was a relisting of the eBay auctions, followed a few days later by cancellations for the same reasons.
While the logical side of my brain tells me it's time to move on with something like the X100S, the emotional side of me just can't leave film and the Leica. It's an internal battle. Emotion vs. logic. Old vs. new. I sometimes feel like Frodo Baggins from The Lord of the Rings with his "precious" ring. You want to get rid of it and at the same time can't bear to part with it.
For now, I've got the Leica and the X100S in the bag and am shooting both about equally.
When the idea of selling the Leica starts to come back I read Chris Weeks' "Street Photography for the Purist" and the urge seems to go away. That and the "I love my MP" thread over on the Leica forum seem to be doing the trick.
The purpose of this long out-pouring is simply to recommend to the OP: DON'T SELL YOUR LEICA!!!!!
Leica film rangefinders are timeless. When you hold one in your hand you can conquer the world.
-Mike
