The next digital M: When?

[airfrogusmc]

Me too, ... mine that is 😉

Ya can't have mine.😛 🙂

 

[icebear]

I thought so 😉 but mine just got serviced, so I don't intend to swap either.
1 week turnaround time (incl. Memorial Day weekend) at Leica, NJ 😀.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Thats fast. What did you have done?

 

[pmu]

I know which memory card I will be using with my digital M if I someday get one: the newly announced The limited edition Leica SD Class 10 card ("The limited edition Leica SD Class 10 card offers a 32GB 17 MB/s write and 24 MB/s read speed. ") Price only 90USD. What a bargain! When was that kind of writing speed considered to be a state of the art (or even "good")? Maybe 2005?

PS: Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB (95MB/s) cards are on Amazon 49,95USD.

 

[Keith]

I know which memory card I will be using with my digital M if I someday get one: the newly announced The limited edition Leica SD Class 10 card ("The limited edition Leica SD Class 10 card offers a 32GB 17 MB/s write and 24 MB/s read speed. ") Price only 90USD. What a bargain! When was that kind of writing speed considered to be a state of the art (or even "good")? Maybe 2005?

PS: Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB (95MB/s) cards are on Amazon 49,95USD.

I thought you were joking ... but after a google search apparently you're not. 😱

How ridiculous! 🙁

 

[ian_watts]

When was that kind of writing speed considered to be a state of the art (or even "good")? Maybe 2005?

Dos it matter? There comes a point when you have to stop reading the spec sheets like playing a game of top trumps and, instead, assess a product on what it can do for you. Coming back to the Monochrom, the out-of-date LCD screen is a total irrelevance when assessing the capabilities of that camera. It (low spec screen), and other things like write-speeds, battery capacity, etc – are just trivial considerations when you start to use the camera and realise just how powerful it can be as a photographic tool.

 

[jsrockit]

Lets face it, the X-Pro 2 could be that mop you are talking about. Fuji will better Sony in performance with a new sensor which will have the resolution of the A7r. The formidable Fujinon lenses will be capable of incredible resolution with the new sensor, making full frame irrelevant. It will be the best digital street camera for the buck. The X-Pro 2 will be almost exactly the same as the X-Pro 1, but will have the evf technology of the X-T1 combined with the optical viewfinder. It will be a larger viewfinder as well with better eye relief. Yes, there may be trouble in Leica land , but I am sure the die-hards will stay with Leica. they could, however, by the new X-Pro 2 as a backup. The danger is, the backup may become the main camera!

You work for Fuji now?

 

[Michael Markey]

Dos it matter? There comes a point when you have to stop reading the spec sheets like playing a game of top trumps and, instead, assess a product on what it can do for you. It (low spec screen), and other things like write-speeds, battery capacity, etc – are just trivial considerations when you start to use the camera and realise just how powerful it can be as a photographic tool.

These are all ways of saying that the cameras aren`t for him and he doesn`t understand why any one would buy them.

Battery power and write speeds aren`t an issue with me but they must be important to some people I guess.

So go buy a camera that meets your needs , its really that simple.

Why waste time wondering why others feel differently ...unless you have a genuine wish to learn and I don`t think thats the case.

 

[pmu]

Dos it matter?

Actually no it doesn't. i could easily live with that kind of memory card (in most shooting situations). I would've not even mentioned the whole thing if that sd card had a "15€" price tag. It's kinda mind boggling and fascinating how often Leica can price their products so super high only by printing their logo into it, and people still buy them. I really applaud their marketing department. Best in business, for sure!

BTW, I am shooting 60% with a digital camera made in 2012 and 40% with a digital camera made in 2008. I am not looking at specs and running with the latest technology. I am looking to upgrade maybe in 2-4 years from now.

 

[pmu]

These are all ways of saying that the cameras aren`t for him and he doesn`t understand why any one would buy them.

Actually no. MM or M would definitely be for me (in my film days I used exclusively Leica in 35mm format), but not at current price range. Drop the price -25% -- -35% and things would be different.

Ok, I guess this "price discussion" is offtopic and should end here. At least on my part.

 

[pmu]

...and other things like write-speeds, battery capacity, etc – are just trivial considerations

It's trivial, if the battery dies too early and/or you miss shots because of slow writing speed? I mean, slow writing speed slows me sometimes even if I _never_ever_ shoot machine gun style. Last winter I was shooting 3 days in -40C weather without being able to recharge my batteries. Luckily I didn't have to even use my spare battery because one single battery proved to be enough (total of little over 750 images). I just checked from my notes: on one day in that trip, the temperature was -35C to -40C weather (roughly same in F) and I was outside continuously for 4 hours and took 350 shots, all with AF. Battery % after that: 80% charge left. I guess the temperature affects also on the writing speed.

 

[icebear]

Thats fast. What did you have done?

Fixing a pixel column error, checking sensor position and RF adjustment to a 90 'cron that has been matched to my M9. I had a slight front focus issue wide open.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Dos it matter? There comes a point when you have to stop reading the spec sheets like playing a game of top trumps and, instead, assess a product on what it can do for you. Coming back to the Monochrom, the out-of-date LCD screen is a total irrelevance when assessing the capabilities of that camera. It (low spec screen), and other things like write-speeds, battery capacity, etc – are just trivial considerations when you start to use the camera and realise just how powerful it can be as a photographic tool.

Perfectly said. Its a camera that just gets out of the way...

 

[airfrogusmc]

It's trivial, if the battery dies too early and/or you miss shots because of slow writing speed? I mean, slow writing speed slows me sometimes even if I _never_ever_ shoot machine gun style. Last winter I was shooting 3 days in -40C weather without being able to recharge my batteries. Luckily I didn't have to even use my spare battery because one single battery proved to be enough (total of little over 750 images). I just checked from my notes: on one day in that trip, the temperature was -35C to -40C weather (roughly same in F) and I was outside continuously for 4 hours and took 350 shots, all with AF. Battery % after that: 80% charge left. I guess the temperature affects also on the writing speed.

I don't know any photographer that doesn't carry extra batteries. I can shoot most of the day with one. This camera wouldn't be for you no matter what. You like the FPS, auto focus and the ability to take your camera in the shower and a meat locker. I like to shoot the street and for timing and being able to get the shots I need there is not a better tool than the MM. And I've shot more formats of film and digital in both my professional work and my personal work over the years than most and the MM is the best digital tool for those purposes that I've shot with. I don't use FPS. I don't shoot in auto modes at all.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Fixing a pixel column error, checking sensor position and RF adjustment to a 90 'cron that has been matched to my M9. I had a slight front focus issue wide open.

That is fast service indeed.

 

[pmu]

This camera wouldn't be for you no matter what. You like the FPS, auto focus and the ability to take your camera in the shower and a meat locker.

I have to ask you: do you even read my texts before you reply to them? I guess no. Or maybe the mistake is in my bad English.

Yes, I agree, it seems that Leica MM is not the camera for me. I would love it to be. But If I have to spend 6800 euros to a camera which has: "... ridiculously slow writing speed and small frame buffer. I’ve lost track of the times when I missed photo opportunities because the camera was busy writing data to the card after shooting 4-5 RAW frames continuously. The camera simply locks up and flashes its red light for 12-15 seconds while the decisive moment fades away" and the "battery life is rated at 350 shots according to Leica / CIPA test results". That translates into words: battery life sucks. It is worse than my first prosumer Nikon digital in 2006 (or maybe similar to that). Can I guess, Leica replacement batteries are not cheap? I don't even want to know how much do they cost. If I wanted to use that camera comfortably on my trips, I would need to get maybe 5-6 extra batteries. I can't even imagine the actual number of shots MM can take in less than optimal temperature.

About the memory card speed: I was reading today the L-forum and there was a thread where M240 users were experiencing/complaining 1-5 seconds start up times with their cameras. Slow card = long start up time. That new Leica sd card would and will probably very much suck in that camera (and also MM). But hey, it has a nice red Leica logo, so who cares if the start up takes 5 seconds or if taking multiple shots cripples your camera for 15 seconds?

The colored text are quotes from MM reviews found on internet.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I read what you write and then you talk about burst rate in the next breath. I say learn to see the moment instead of trying to blast your way through it. Us old Jarheads are about one well placed round. I have no trouble capturing what I need with the MM. It's more tool than I will ever need. You want burst rates get nicanon. There are certainly plenty of those out there and as you pointed out a lot cheaper. Though the top of the line aren't. Right tool for the job. I'm also sorry you have to blast through moments. I like to find them myself.

 

[Michael Markey]

Drop the price -25% -- -35% and things would be different.

Well I agree , they`re not value for money compared to other cameras if you are comparing them on specifications.

As was pointed out in an earlier post ,they are a luxury product.
We all appreciate that.
I use two Merrills which are considered poor on both battery and write times.
Neither has affected my shooting one bit so what doesn`t work for one may do for another.

We don`t all have the same expectations or requirements.

 

[airfrogusmc]

If you are looking for gadgets and the one size fits all then the MM is not the bargain. If you put value into bells and whistles then no not a camera for you. If you are looking for a camera that is simple and gets out of the way and lets you create then it might be the tool for you.

 

[pmu]

I can shoot most of the day with one (battery).

Almost whole day? That's nice. Last December, I spent 21 days abroad and spent everyday few hours taking "street" pictures. I took two batteries with me and the recharger stayed home. First battery lasted 13 days. When I came home, I even made one gig on that second battery before needing to recharge it. Just to give you a little perspective.

If you put value into bells and whistles then no there not a camera for you. If you are looking for a camera that is simple and gets out of the way and lets you create then it might be the tool for you.

Good battery life and non-crippling writing speed = bells and whistles? OK, whatever 😀

This thread is rather amusing, but I will try not to reply anymore until I have something new to add.