Veiling Flare with Alpa Kern Macro Switar 1:1,9/50mm

[_sgb_]

I had this lens for over a year now, coupling it with a metabones adapter and I still haven't been able to get this lens to work properly for me. I really like this lens cos the way it draws is sharp but not harsh and the colours are so pleasant but.....

The problem is I seem to get a centre veiling flare quite easily with it. I know it is an old design lens so with backlit scenes it will have this veiling flare but on more occasions that I can mention even with out a strong focus source of light, the lens still flares.....

I am already using a big massive rubber hood for it :bang:

Can anyone tell me what is wrong with it or there is a defect with my lens..

PS. the lens is the later version with the purple coating and in all black paint.

Here is a few shots with the veiling flare and 2 pics that I managed not to let it flare....

An attempt trying to take macro shot

L1000382.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr


L1000381.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr

Just under normal usage I still get this....

L1000148.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr

Even without a backlit scene

L1000137.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr

Now here are 2 without the flare

L1000289.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr


L1000149.jpg by Billy W, on Flickr

Many thanks in advance

 

[jonmanjiro]

Reminds me of the flare I sometimes experienced with my Millennium Nikkor-S 50/1.4 lens. With that lens, I found that going filterless (no UV or protector filter) helped a lot. So it might sound like a crazy suggestion, but if you're using a UV or protector filter on the lens try removing it.

 

[raid]

😀 I should get this lens as a loaner so that I can try it out!


I also suggest to try out not using a filter and use a good lens hood.
Make sure that the M240 sensor is clean too.
In the end, if there is such a problem, send your lens to the best lens repairmen in your area, or mail the lens to Don Goldberg (DAG) in the USA.

 

[_sgb_]

Reminds me of the flare I sometimes experienced with my Millennium Nikkor-S 50/1.4 lens. With that lens, I found that going filterless (no UV or protector filter) helped a lot. So it might sound like a crazy suggestion, but if you're using a UV or protector filter on the lens try removing it.

I also suggest to try out not using a filter and use a good lens hood.
Make sure that the M240 sensor is clean too.
In the end, if there is such a problem, send your lens to the best lens repairmen in your area, or mail the lens to Don Goldberg (DAG) in the USA.

Thanks jonmanjiro and raid! I'll go out this weekend and try without the UV filter I have on it to see if such a simple but elegant solution would reduce the veiling flare.

I did let a respected lens repairman in HK to have a look at the my lens and he said the glass are clear and no haze just a bit dirty around the glass edges. He advised me not to open it up to give it a CLA cos by his inspection he didn't think the lens has been "open" before and he rather would want to leave "unopened"

I tried stopping down the lens to see if the veiling flare can be reduced but it actually made it worse 😡 Just makes me a little frustrated to see images made by these lens are so clean and colours so balanced yet my doesn't perform as such.

Raid, if you ever come to Hong Kong I can definitely lend it you 😉

 

[mfogiel]

The best guess is to remove the filters. If the lens has no haze inside, then concentrate on a proper lens hood, maybe try to adapt one of the rectangular Leica hoods, which work much better than the round ones. Chances are, your rubber hood is too wide and too short. An alternative would be to fill the insides of a round 50mm hood with some foam, to form a fitting rectangular inside frame, stick it with some glue and paint matt black. This is how James Ravillious was treating his old Leica lenses for shooting in contre jour.
Also, go through this thread:https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115068

 

[raid]

Thanks. This may take some time before I can again visit HK.

Raid

Thanks jonmanjiro and raid! I'll go out this weekend and try without the UV filter I have on it to see if such a simple but elegant solution would reduce the veiling flare.

I did let a respected lens repairman in HK to have a look at the my lens and he said the glass are clear and no haze just a bit dirty around the glass edges. He advised me not to open it up to give it a CLA cos by his inspection he didn't think the lens has been "open" before and he rather would want to leave "unopened"

I tried stopping down the lens to see if the veiling flare can be reduced but it actually made it worse 😡 Just makes me a little frustrated to see images made by these lens are so clean and colours so balanced yet my doesn't perform as such.

Raid, if you ever come to Hong Kong I can definitely lend it you 😉

 

[raid]

The best guess is to remove the filters. If the lens has no haze inside, then concentrate on a proper lens hood, maybe try to adapt one of the rectangular Leica hoods, which work much better than the round ones. Chances are, your rubber hood is too wide and too short.

Marek has same thoughts as my thoughts.

 

[oftheherd]

My first 28mm lens was a Yashikor. Not of the same quality as their Yashinon at all. It also would flare before you could pronounce the entire work.

The only solution I found was to just get real creative with using flare in those photos that flared, trying to put the flare somewhere out of the way, or in a creative place, or something. Of course that didn't always work, but I got pretty good at doing that nonetheless.

Hopefully removing the filter will help.

 

[agfa100]

I have the same lens and use it on both a Sony Nex and a Ricoh GXR with the M-module without any problem as you show. I have the adp. to use it on my M film cameras also without any problem. If you are using filters remove them, also make sure you have a good hood for the lens. I got mine used 40 years ago and it came with the Alpa hood since it clips on the outside,and the Alpa filters snap in (no screw threads) there is no way to screw a filter or hood on the Makro-Switar.
The lens will flare as it is not a multi-coated, but yours look's like there is more going on then just simple flare. I would first try and find a hood and then go from their. Too bad the Alpa hoods are so $$$$ but then so is the lens these days.
wbill

 

[DominikDUK]

Could it be the Adapter, Kern lenses are way above average lenses. And the Macro switar has a good Reputation. It does flare in direct light but it is not a really flare prone lens.

 

[_sgb_]

The best guess is to remove the filters. If the lens has no haze inside, then concentrate on a proper lens hood, maybe try to adapt one of the rectangular Leica hoods, which work much better than the round ones. Chances are, your rubber hood is too wide and too short. An alternative would be to fill the insides of a round 50mm hood with some foam, to form a fitting rectangular inside frame, stick it with some glue and paint matt black. This is how James Ravillious was treating his old Leica lenses for shooting in contre jour.
Also, go through this thread:https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115068

mfogiel, I do have a pretty long and narrowish aftermarket rubber hood that is much longer than the original hood for the Macro Switar. Will get a quick pic of the lens with the original and rubber hood for you tonight.

That thread on the hoods are quite informative, I will measure up my rubber hood and see where it stands. Thanks for the clicky-linky 🙂

Thanks. This may take some time before I can again visit HK.

Raid

No worries raid! I don't see this lens going anywhere soon and am still trying to make the best use of this lens. Hopefully, by the time you get here the flare issued will be sorted 🙂

I have the same lens and use it on both a Sony Nex and a Ricoh GXR with the M-module without any problem as you show. I have the adp. to use it on my M film cameras also without any problem. If you are using filters remove them, also make sure you have a good hood for the lens. I got mine used 40 years ago and it came with the Alpa hood since it clips on the outside,and the Alpa filters snap in (no screw threads) there is no way to screw a filter or hood on the Makro-Switar.
The lens will flare as it is not a multi-coated, but yours look's like there is more going on then just simple flare. I would first try and find a hood and then go from their. Too bad the Alpa hoods are so $$$$ but then so is the lens these days.
wbill

This is exactly what I wanted to hear: that this lens does not easily flare!

The Alpa's snap-in filters are as rare as the hoods! I got a filter adapter (made by a local camera shop in HK) that snaps-in to the original Alpa filter mount and at the other end it accepts a E49 filter which I then screw on a collapsible rubber hood.

When I put the original hood and rubber hood side-by-side, the rubber hood is much longer and the original hood don't actually stick out too far from the front of the lens.

Could it be the Adapter, Kern lenses are way above average lenses. And the Macro switar has a good Reputation. It does flare in direct light but it is not a really flare prone lens.

Dom, this is exactly why I'm so frustrated and not being able to use this lens fully when I see other ppl's images made with this lens is so good. And like you said, they are above average lenses with a good reputation

Thanks very much to all your responses! (I will keep this thread alive until the flare is sorted!)

 

[Dante_Stella]

Check the lens with a strong light. The rainbow-edged flare suggests oil haze or separation.

Dante

 

[jaapv]

Central veiling flare is mostly a result of internal reflections inside the lens. Check whether it has lost any of its inside antireflective paint as far as you can see. Otherwise the black edge paint on the elements may have been damaged in an earlier repair. The nastiest possibilities would be balsam separation on a cemented element (does this lens have one?) or internal haze (which can be removed) or fungus.

 

[_sgb_]

Check the lens with a strong light. The rainbow-edged flare suggests oil haze or separation.

Dante

Do you mean a rainbow-edged flare in the photos?

Central veiling flare is mostly a result of internal reflections inside the lens. Check whether it has lost any of its inside antireflective paint as far as you can see. Otherwise the black edge paint on the elements may have been damaged in an earlier repair. The nastiest possibilities would be balsam separation on a cemented element (does this lens have one?) or internal haze (which can be removed) or fungus.

I have checked the lens before with a LED torch light, no fungus but quite a few dust spots (but understandable for a lens of this age). However, I did notice that the aperture blades when viewing from the front of the lens are quite shiny but not like oil-film kind of shiny. I wonder would that part of the cause on the veiling flare.

 

[jaapv]

Do you mean a rainbow-edged flare in the photos?



I have checked the lens before with a LED torch light, no fungus but quite a few dust spots (but understandable for a lens of this age). However, I did notice that the aperture blades when viewing from the front of the lens are quite shiny but not like oil-film kind of shiny. I wonder would that part of the cause on the veiling flare.

Quite possible. In that case the aperture used should make a difference.

 

[_sgb_]

Quite possible. In that case the aperture used should make a difference.

Thanks jaapv. So I guess that is why the ceiling flare actually worsen by stopping down the lens?

 

[jaapv]

That appears to be consistent.

 

[raid]

Does the flare vanish when the lens is used wide open?

 

[_sgb_]

Aim to try this weekend for some more control tests whether the shiny aperture blades are the problem.

 

[Ronald M]

Some older lenses have a rear element that reflects light back to the sensor.

Only cure is return or sell.