Out to Lunch
Veteran
This site surely has its share of 'dominant' posters who love to top everything said and done. Less camp and more photos would be a good re-start.
what do you want rff to be?
- Thread starter back alley
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Paulbe
Well-known
I like the site the way it is. Good balance of gear talk and lots of excellent photos.
The moderators do an excellent job of staying on top of things.
Please don't mess with it...you can always NOT READ the stuff you don't like...
Paul
The moderators do an excellent job of staying on top of things.
Please don't mess with it...you can always NOT READ the stuff you don't like...
Paul
benlees
Well-known
This is a gear forum. This is fine. It's great to be able to find out how a particular thing works: the good the bad. Opinions about photography, art, being a professional, or anything, really, vary considerably and discussions about these, of course, always disintegrate (pocket knives??). Politics are unavoidable. Informed opinion based on experience and a bit of thought go along way to helping people see other views. Nothing wrong here as long as it remains civil.
RFF is the only forum I visit these days because it is civil and well moderated (although dissenting opinions concerning Leica seem to be silenced quickly:angel🙂. Lots of variety is good.
RFF is the only forum I visit these days because it is civil and well moderated (although dissenting opinions concerning Leica seem to be silenced quickly:angel🙂. Lots of variety is good.
anjoca76
Well-known
I personally could do with less polls, largely for one simple reason: when one casts a "vote," the thread gets a bump, as if something new worth reading is there. It would be better if the bump only occurred when someone actually posts something.
MikeDimit
Established
I find it very refreshing, as there is luck of meaningless talk abouts. K.I.S.S !
Sparrow
Veteran
I've been taking photos since I was twelve, so if this place was only about gear and photographs I would very quickly get bored, going over old ground again and again
I come here to take part in the community, so its the peripheral subjects and debate that I enjoy, I like those thread that meander rather than have fixed points of view ... I've noticed fewer of those as we've grown but I suppose that's the price we pay
I come here to take part in the community, so its the peripheral subjects and debate that I enjoy, I like those thread that meander rather than have fixed points of view ... I've noticed fewer of those as we've grown but I suppose that's the price we pay
ChipMcD
Well-known
Like many of the other posters, I perceive RFF as a gear and photography site, with the greater emphasis on gear. I agree with Roger Hicks that politics is a part of life and photography. I would like all threads to have some sort of photographic hook, but for moderators to be a bit indulgent on drift. There are obviously trolls looking to score or rile folks, particularly when it comes to critique of others' work. With few exceptions here, I think we are mostly a bunch of serious hobbyists who produce some good, and sometimes superior work. Condescension doesn't help, constructive criticism does, but I do not believe that the difference between banal and great work is sometimes apparent, see, e.g., Wm. Eggleston and others. It is a matter of taste. So moderators should feel free to shut down true ad hominem attacks and flame wars.
From what I can see from hanging around here for a few years, moderators are striking a good balance.
From what I can see from hanging around here for a few years, moderators are striking a good balance.
daveleo
what?
I like the diversity of opinions and topics very much. There's something for
everybody, and it's good to read how other people see things and what's
important to them, even when I absolutely disagree (which is often !).
Most people (though not all ) are here to share ideas, not to win arguments -
which is good. Other forum places, it's usually "I will beat you down, I must
win, you must loose".
When topics go toxic (ooooo "toxic topics" ! ? ) on a personal level, I just
stop reading the thread.
EDIT: some people should argue things out in PM's, huh !
everybody, and it's good to read how other people see things and what's
important to them, even when I absolutely disagree (which is often !).
Most people (though not all ) are here to share ideas, not to win arguments -
which is good. Other forum places, it's usually "I will beat you down, I must
win, you must loose".
When topics go toxic (ooooo "toxic topics" ! ? ) on a personal level, I just
stop reading the thread.
EDIT: some people should argue things out in PM's, huh !
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
I'm grateful to the 'Chief Bartender' that this forum exists.
It isn't my forum, I'm just a contributor.
If the 'Chief Bartender' through the moderators decide that he doesn't like something I have posted, I fully accept that his decision to delete is completely up to him. He must have a good reason. He might be subject to pressures about which we, the contributors, know nothing, and should be grateful that we know nothing.
Over the years I have been posting the nature of the forum has changed.
Technology has provided gear we only perhaps dreamt about five years ago. The speed of the internet has inreased so that contact between places in the world and the peoples is faster and easier. There are obvious positives and negatives involved. The speed generates instant reaction and spontaneous comment often seen in retrospect as being only partially true, unbalanced or biased. I guess we have to live as best we can with these issues, and try to curb over-reaction. Experience tells me that there are at least two sides to every story, often three, and sometimes the story doesn't exist in fact.
So what do I want from the forum - balance, tolerance, and understanding that others don't live in quite the same world in which I do - don't see it my way because their life experiences are different. The accepting contact with other photographers in other parts of the world is the inherent strength of RFF.
This extends to sharing expertise in gear, and photographic practice with film, digital, or any other medium.
What I would like more of is the reaction of other members to photos posted. This is difficult because of the need to give critical appraisal.
At present I feel I can directly contact some members with a request of 'what do you think of this?' and know that I can get honest opinion of how they see things. I appreciate this very much and would hope that every RFF member could have forum contact with others with whom they can exchange critique of their work. I don't know how this can be encouraged and nutured but I think we could all benefit.
Again, thank you Chief Bartender for providing RFF.
jesse
It isn't my forum, I'm just a contributor.
If the 'Chief Bartender' through the moderators decide that he doesn't like something I have posted, I fully accept that his decision to delete is completely up to him. He must have a good reason. He might be subject to pressures about which we, the contributors, know nothing, and should be grateful that we know nothing.
Over the years I have been posting the nature of the forum has changed.
Technology has provided gear we only perhaps dreamt about five years ago. The speed of the internet has inreased so that contact between places in the world and the peoples is faster and easier. There are obvious positives and negatives involved. The speed generates instant reaction and spontaneous comment often seen in retrospect as being only partially true, unbalanced or biased. I guess we have to live as best we can with these issues, and try to curb over-reaction. Experience tells me that there are at least two sides to every story, often three, and sometimes the story doesn't exist in fact.
So what do I want from the forum - balance, tolerance, and understanding that others don't live in quite the same world in which I do - don't see it my way because their life experiences are different. The accepting contact with other photographers in other parts of the world is the inherent strength of RFF.
This extends to sharing expertise in gear, and photographic practice with film, digital, or any other medium.
What I would like more of is the reaction of other members to photos posted. This is difficult because of the need to give critical appraisal.
At present I feel I can directly contact some members with a request of 'what do you think of this?' and know that I can get honest opinion of how they see things. I appreciate this very much and would hope that every RFF member could have forum contact with others with whom they can exchange critique of their work. I don't know how this can be encouraged and nutured but I think we could all benefit.
Again, thank you Chief Bartender for providing RFF.
jesse
Rodchenko
Olympian
Well, I'm right with Roger on his first post (quoted below).
I'm quite new to the forum, so maybe I have a different perspective on things from some other people. I hope my opinion isn't disregarded on the basis of my n00b status - it's just the way I see it.
The two main things I like here are the name (and what that implies), and the images.
The name because there are any number of sites and fora on the web dominated by DSLR users. And good luck to them, but that's just not my thing, y'know. And there are sites for film photographers, but they can be a bit sniffy about anyone who also uses digital. I like that it's an inclusive space here, but that we're not too snobby about other cameras, and give them their own threads or fora. I've got a film SLR and scale focus cameras (35mm & medium format) as well as my rangefinders, and I don't feel like I have to keep it as a dirty secret.
I really enjoy the photo threads and, while (unless there's a specific question I need answering) I always browse from the Home page, I look at more of the W/NW board threads than anything else. It's inspiring. I may not always like the photos others have posted, but I make sure I work out what it is I like or dislike, and try to apply that to my own photography. I'm very conscious that there are some very talented folk around here, and my own efforts are a bit limited, but that's how we learn.
What don't I like? Well, I know this is also a gear forum, and there is love here for some popular gear that would be sniffed at elsewhere, but the bling threads do get a bit tedious. It seems that some people spend so much time buying the latest this, that and the other (where the hell do they get the money from?) that they don't have time to actually point their cameras at anything and take photos. Sure, it's good to appreciate the beautiful machines in our area of interest, and I have my Super Paxette beside me now, which makes me smile every time I look at it, and I have posted about my love of the 35SP, despite its broken meter, slightly loose lens body etc, but there's a limit to the fetishisation of gear before it gets boring and silly.
The other thing which irks is the pretence at an apolitical stance. That's just impossible. Everything is political, especially in photography, and rangefinders have the most political position in the history of the art, so it would be daft to try to whitewash that. I don't suggest that this place should become a political forum - there are other places for that - but, where there's a genuine political aspect to a photography story - or vice versa - such as the Turkey or Thatcher threads, posting should be allowed to continue unless it becomes offensive or hate speech, and then mods could, as someone suggested, replace the text with a message as to why the post was removed. That's pretty normal in most places, and shouldn't be too hard here. Politics isn't what brought us together, but it is a normal part of everyday life and conversation.
This is a good forum, and I have learned a lot about specific models of camera, photo technique, repairing old cameras (I'm in the middle of doing CPR on an ECR right now, as it happens), and have had the opportunity to discuss photography with interesting, talented and knowledgeable people.
I'm quite new to the forum, so maybe I have a different perspective on things from some other people. I hope my opinion isn't disregarded on the basis of my n00b status - it's just the way I see it.
The two main things I like here are the name (and what that implies), and the images.
The name because there are any number of sites and fora on the web dominated by DSLR users. And good luck to them, but that's just not my thing, y'know. And there are sites for film photographers, but they can be a bit sniffy about anyone who also uses digital. I like that it's an inclusive space here, but that we're not too snobby about other cameras, and give them their own threads or fora. I've got a film SLR and scale focus cameras (35mm & medium format) as well as my rangefinders, and I don't feel like I have to keep it as a dirty secret.
I really enjoy the photo threads and, while (unless there's a specific question I need answering) I always browse from the Home page, I look at more of the W/NW board threads than anything else. It's inspiring. I may not always like the photos others have posted, but I make sure I work out what it is I like or dislike, and try to apply that to my own photography. I'm very conscious that there are some very talented folk around here, and my own efforts are a bit limited, but that's how we learn.
What don't I like? Well, I know this is also a gear forum, and there is love here for some popular gear that would be sniffed at elsewhere, but the bling threads do get a bit tedious. It seems that some people spend so much time buying the latest this, that and the other (where the hell do they get the money from?) that they don't have time to actually point their cameras at anything and take photos. Sure, it's good to appreciate the beautiful machines in our area of interest, and I have my Super Paxette beside me now, which makes me smile every time I look at it, and I have posted about my love of the 35SP, despite its broken meter, slightly loose lens body etc, but there's a limit to the fetishisation of gear before it gets boring and silly.
The other thing which irks is the pretence at an apolitical stance. That's just impossible. Everything is political, especially in photography, and rangefinders have the most political position in the history of the art, so it would be daft to try to whitewash that. I don't suggest that this place should become a political forum - there are other places for that - but, where there's a genuine political aspect to a photography story - or vice versa - such as the Turkey or Thatcher threads, posting should be allowed to continue unless it becomes offensive or hate speech, and then mods could, as someone suggested, replace the text with a message as to why the post was removed. That's pretty normal in most places, and shouldn't be too hard here. Politics isn't what brought us together, but it is a normal part of everyday life and conversation.
This is a good forum, and I have learned a lot about specific models of camera, photo technique, repairing old cameras (I'm in the middle of doing CPR on an ECR right now, as it happens), and have had the opportunity to discuss photography with interesting, talented and knowledgeable people.
L David Tomei
Well-known
- Local time
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- Dec 3, 2007
- Messages
- 363
Ohhh why can't we all hug and sing Kumbayah, FGS... ...and go out and buy a new Digital RF camera... and try to figure out whether some crummy photograph was taken with an old Argus C3 and claimed to be a Leica M3 (really!)... or call another viewfinder "squinty" for the 1000th time...
Well, all this just sounds like the family getting together on some holiday.
I like RFF asa it is. If you need to have an argument that doesn't involve the rest of us, do it in Private Messages.
Well, all this just sounds like the family getting together on some holiday.
I like RFF asa it is. If you need to have an argument that doesn't involve the rest of us, do it in Private Messages.
thegman
Veteran
I think pretty much any view should be accepted here, unless it just becomes pointless abuse.
It's as clear as day to me, and perhaps to others that if this is going to be a photography forum as well as a gear forum, you've got to allow discussion of just about any topic, as photography can cover just about any topic.
It's much easier than some people think to have completely opposing views, but still have a respectful discussion. I'd much rather that than the censorship approach.
I think the moderation here can be a bit severe, but the good by far outweighs the bad.
It's as clear as day to me, and perhaps to others that if this is going to be a photography forum as well as a gear forum, you've got to allow discussion of just about any topic, as photography can cover just about any topic.
It's much easier than some people think to have completely opposing views, but still have a respectful discussion. I'd much rather that than the censorship approach.
I think the moderation here can be a bit severe, but the good by far outweighs the bad.
Roger,
it makes no difference if you buy it or not .
its not your choice.
Most politics and religion threads end up in useless arguments on RFF, settling nothing but taking up a lot of the mod's time.
Its better to delete most of them from the get go, and that is the way its going to be.
Stephen
Highway 61
Revisited
Largely depends on what you call "politics". The definition of that word varies a lot depending on locations. And RFF is an international worldwide forum. You say "politics", I say "social problems", and so on...
I have not read the Turkish protests thread (nor do I know in which subforum it is hidden) but I was seeing no reason to delete the Thatcher's funeral photos thread. What Maggie Thatcher did now belongs to documented history and it seems legit to me that people having suffered from her terrible policy can discuss this while looking at her (funded with public GBPs) funeral photos. And the photos Simon posted are very good, photographically wise...
Gosh ! I just made you hear my own "opinion on politics"... 😉
f16sunshine
Moderator
Is a thread topic regarding the banning of image taking in public places considered political?
Where is the line drawn?
Photos, privacy, and in particular photojournalism are often thick with what could be considered political considerations/views.
How can you separate them? I'm not trying to be sarcastic but....Is this to be a gear and kittens forum only?
Hiyawaan
Particular Individual
no, gear for ostriches apparently.
The line is decided on a thread by thread by basis.
Discussions, yes. Useless arguing, no.
Stephen
konicaman
konicaman
I find this to a very nice and friendly forum (maybe due to mods deleting the more "unfriendly" threads?). Newbies can get help - even if the question has been answered dozens of time.
Political discussions are fine with me (although I find them futile most of the time) as long as it is civilized. I do not want to participate in them, but then again I do not participate in discussions of which 35mm Leica lens is the best and why either. It all comes down to being selective. If it does not interest me, I simply ignore it.
Yes I like gear talk, yes I like photography talk, yes I like bag threads and yes, I spent too much time here - because I like it the way things are...
Political discussions are fine with me (although I find them futile most of the time) as long as it is civilized. I do not want to participate in them, but then again I do not participate in discussions of which 35mm Leica lens is the best and why either. It all comes down to being selective. If it does not interest me, I simply ignore it.
Yes I like gear talk, yes I like photography talk, yes I like bag threads and yes, I spent too much time here - because I like it the way things are...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Why add "on politics"? Why not just say "Hearing other people's opinions is a waste of time"?
Cheers,
R.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I must say that like RFF the way it is .
I`ve always found it informative and well run.
As to the political debates ,well its not what I come here for and I`m shocked by the intolerance on display at times .
However I do find Rogers threads of great interest although I don`t always agree with the premise, they do start you thinking .
That all sounds a bit insipid ...its the best I can do for the moment.
I`ve always found it informative and well run.
As to the political debates ,well its not what I come here for and I`m shocked by the intolerance on display at times .
However I do find Rogers threads of great interest although I don`t always agree with the premise, they do start you thinking .
That all sounds a bit insipid ...its the best I can do for the moment.
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