What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?

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Phil_F_NM said:
The last two rallies I went to, just last month, there was one photographer using a film camera at one (myself) and two at the second one (I was one of them.) I am no longer a reporter but I still canvas the crowd like I am one, looking for shots. I pay attention to what people are shooting with, especially if it's not a phone. There was ONE Leica digital at the second rally, owned by my old landlord.
Yes, Leica is built upon exclusivity and mystique. That is why they have overall low volume sales in comparison to companies such as Fuji, Sony and Nikon. Leica's prices reflect that low volume as well as create the exclusivity itself. Not very many people can afford a new digital Leica and one of the new lenses. Heck, most people can't afford anything by Leica, used or new. Leica abandoned working photographers and is now concentrating on selling the red dot to affluent people who would just as soon use their iPhone as use a $7000 camera with a $9000 lens.
Phil Forrest
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I agree on Leica and always avoided anything Leica due to prices but most of all to smugness of the cult around it.
Otoh it´s truly well built stuff. BUT... Cosina Voigtlander is the real deal. By taking the RF concept (small ergonomics, classic lens rendition, mechanical manual focus) and taking it to my level of economics which i call "reality", Cosina made RF film photography real.

I would pay 4k out of a whim for a Leica MP as a crazy act of spending.. but my reality is based on Noktons and Ultrons, not Summicrons, Summilux or Noctilux. No Chinese barrel distortion kings as well.

If Bessa comes up w/ a new camera or Zeiss Ikon, i will buy it.
 
Peter Wijninga said:
Sure, just keep your head in the sand. Buy, sell and develop at home is a a reality that exists in your head, only. I'm done with this thread.
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LOL!!!!!!
Film market exists only in my head.. because you don´t see mortar and brick shops so you can buy a can of Kodachrome.

Bwahahahahhahahahahahaha.. sure: online economy is a mirage. Because you say so.
This is the funniest thing i read.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
colker said:
I am talking about supply and demand. Our favorite philosophy. I want another leica body. I expected to pay between 600 and 900 bucks. It´s more like 1000 and 2000. I don´t see prices raising like that in any other field.
Can i try another RF? They all increased their prices sometimes 100%.
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Is it really your fave philosophy?

colker said:
Every time i call on camera´s silly prices i get: supply and demand... as if it´s the law gravity.
Supply is easily manipulated.

There are artificially inflated prices in every market w/ investors backing off when price is far from value. I see it everyday in the photo market. Hasselblad Xpan prices? Silly. Hasselblad 500cm? Good value.
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So which is it, artificially inflated prices, or supply vs demand?

How many of the currently trendy cameras are actually getting sold?

Bear in mind, supply vs demand is very fluid. Rising prices in the spot market reflect the (a) spot supply and (b) spot demand.

If there are only 10 Contax T3s on the market at any given moment, and 11 serious buyers, that's enough to raise the price.

But how many of these are actually getting sold, over time? Maybe 1 a day, on the world's largest marketplace of used photo gear (ebay?)

Is 1 a day enough to get manufacturer interest?
 
splitimageview said:
Bingo.

What happens if there are suddenly a flood of brand new Contax T3s on the market, but only a relative handful of buyers?
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How come when every single Contax T3 sells?
No one is manufacturing a line of cameras without doing a bit of market and distribution research. I say the signs point to a sellers market.. not a buyers market but that´s me. How i observe things. How i deal w/ logic and math. Pessimism can always trump reality.
 
splitimageview said:
Is it really your fave philosophy?

So which is it, artificially inflated prices, or supply vs demand?

Both

How many of the currently trendy cameras are actually getting sold?

All

Bear in mind, supply vs demand is very fluid. Rising prices in the spot market reflect the (a) spot supply and (b) spot demand.

Yes. It´s fluid.. but no one ever promised an easy game to any corporation

If there are only 10 Contax T3s on the market at any given moment, and 11 serious buyers, that's enough to raise the price.

If? How did you do your research?

But how many of these are actually getting sold, over time? Maybe 1 a day, on the world's largest marketplace of used photo gear (ebay?)

Just do your research.

Is 1 a day enough to get manufacturer interest?
You tell me
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Sorry. i don´t know how to reply to each question. Best i could do.
 
Blind optimism and delusion is just that.
There simply is not the mass market worldwide for any manufacturer to retool and create a new film camera to appeal to a large audience at an affordable price. Except the disposable. Film lives there.
Feel free to be offended or however you may otherwise. Fantasy does not drive the global market. Maybe in a basement, playing Dungeons and Dragons but not out here. EBay is not reality either nor is it a reliable snapshot or predictor of a global market.
Phil Forrest
 
You're missing the point.

Rising prices of specific camera models, stating yet again, has nothing whatsoever to do with film sales.

Second, a small number of cameras available for sale, with a slightly larger number of serious buyers, is all it takes to raise the price of said camera.

This could be a matter of 10 for sale and 11 buyers. This is nothing any manufacturer is going to get excited about.

For the sake of argument, let's the Contax T3 keeps rising up to $4,000. This does *not* imply that there are more cameras being sold. It only implies that there are a larger number of serious buyers (spot demand) than the current (spot) supply.

This horse is dead, time to move on.

Good luck, I hope someday you can buy your new camera. :)
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Blind optimism and delusion is just that.
There simply is not the mass market worldwide for any manufacturer to retool and create a new film camera to appeal to a large audience at an affordable price. Except the disposable. Film lives there.
Feel free to be offended or however you may otherwise. Fantasy does not drive the global market. Maybe in a basement, playing Dungeons and Dragons but not out here. EBay is not reality either nor is it a reliable snapshot or predictor of a global market.
Phil Forrest
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Oh yeah? Tell Ferrania and Ilford they are blind optimists. Tell everyone who increased their sales they are blind optimists.

I am not offended. I am LMAO. Stubborness can be funny.

People at kodak, ferrania, leica, Ilford put their money where their mouth is. That´s how the economy rolls. That´s how real deals roll.

I rather go w/ those companies and expect cameras to shoot their film. That´s my go to logic: follow the money.
You may opt for a different logic.
 
Peter Wijninga said:
Well, one reason as to why Fuji might stay in the 35mm game is that it's in their name...Fujifilm. It's not Fujimedical or Fuji instantfilm or Fuji whatever. It's Fujifilm.
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INSTAX film alone keeps that name real. You can bet Fuji will discontinue 400H the moment they can't make money from it.
 
Any chance this thread can be made a Sticky? Many of us might want to come back in five years and see which predictions came true, if any.
 
colker said:
Too bad for them. Let´s buy from someone else. Leica, Cosina, Lomo..who is next?

This is not Soviet Russia. If there is a market, a company will fill it.
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That's just it. There is nowhere else, aside from one company that I know of, Central Camera downtown.

There has been no demand at all to cause someone to try to fill it.
 
splitimageview said:
You're missing the point.

Rising prices of specific camera models, stating yet again, has nothing whatsoever to do with film sales.

Second, a small number of cameras available for sale, with a slightly larger number of serious buyers, is all it takes to raise the price of said camera.

This could be a matter of 10 for sale and 11 buyers. This is nothing any manufacturer is going to get excited about.

For the sake of argument, let's the Contax T3 keeps rising up to $4,000. This does *not* imply that there are more cameras being sold. It only implies that there are a larger number of serious buyers (spot demand) than the current (spot) supply.

This horse is dead, time to move on.

Good luck, I hope someday you can buy your new camera. :)
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It´s you who is missing the point which is : film sales are growing.

People are buying cameras to shoot film.

Most of us don´t want to trust sellers on ebay the camera is working. Most of us would rather buy a new camera which we know won´t break. I don´t give a F about collecting. I want things to work. I don´t want personal relationships w/ DAG, Krauter or any other camera fixer due to constantly shipping old stuff to CLA. I rather keep shooting.. i rather put up w/ 4k than buy an old Leica M6.

Most of the people are like me. We don´t live for fixing old cameras. We shoot photos. That´s how we have fun. Film is FUN.

There are thousands of youngsters shooting film and film companies are making a buck.

I made this thread here because it´s a rangefinder forum. Not old camera on ebay forum.. just camera forum.
 
Too bad you've presented no evidence of this yet, after 9 pages.

You *have* shown that the film industry isn't dead, which we already knew.
 
splitimageview said:
Too bad you've presented no evidence of this yet, after 9 pages.

You *have* shown that the film industry isn't dead, which we already knew.
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Do your research. HTP came and said of his experience in Photokina. You don´t want to talk facts. You want to argue on the internet.
The writing is on the (virtual) wall. Film is expanding its presence in young photographers' lives. You need cameras to shoot. Used is just an option, not the norm in any industry. Naturally we will have film cameras.

You want evidence? Do your research. The only evidence presented to the contrary is the fact that photo shops are closed and labs are closed.
New labs are also opening. Not everywhere... but there is an emerging market. Now.. street shops?? Who buys in street shops? We buy on line. Another reason to not buy used. We buy unseen.
 
So what is happening here is that you're projecting or assigning your values (wanting a new camera, wanting to process yourself, wanting to send your film away, wanting to buy sight unseen) to a wider market which you erroneously think you represent. This is seen by your use of WE but without presenting data and an accurate sample space "we" is just an arbitrary group. An opinion.
Phil Forrest
 
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